| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Rates with LSPs Thread poster: Clément Marquet
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Hi,
I'm struggling to find what are acceptable rates with agencies, as they are always trying to lower the prices...
The ProZ indicator is helpful, but I can't determine if the rates given are averages with direct clients or with LSPs.
Let's say for EN>FR for a translator based in Europe, I think 0,09€/w is a minimum. Is it utopian? To understand the price clients pay, what is the average mark-up of LSPs?
Clément
| | | | Natasha Cloutier 
Netherlands
Local time: 22:15
Member (2023)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Depends on a few factors | Feb 15 |
Hi Clément,
As you can imagine, it really depends on the country of business, language pairs, etc.
As well, working for LSPs means lower rates. Direct clients is the way to go.
€0,09 for France (I'm guessing) might be fine, but not in the Netherlands. That's too low, even for EN>FR, which I do.
Excellente journée !
[Edited at 2024-02-15 10:58 GMT]
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We don’t work the same language pairs, but let’s say that my minimum for agencies is 0.09€/word for ES/PT and 0.10€/word for EN/PT + FR+PT + IT/PT. For direct clients (companies or international organizations) I prefer quoting per job, but my rate will be at least 25% more. How much higher depends entirely on several factors - what the potential new client requires: only translation (that’s rare)? or translation + edition + proofing (more common). Over the years, the work I have done t... See more We don’t work the same language pairs, but let’s say that my minimum for agencies is 0.09€/word for ES/PT and 0.10€/word for EN/PT + FR+PT + IT/PT. For direct clients (companies or international organizations) I prefer quoting per job, but my rate will be at least 25% more. How much higher depends entirely on several factors - what the potential new client requires: only translation (that’s rare)? or translation + edition + proofing (more common). Over the years, the work I have done to direct clients tend to be very large projects (over 100,000 words). Yet, I have been working with a regular long-standing direct client for agency rates or about. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Still talking about rates... | Feb 15 |
Quite recently some of us called “indécent” a rate of 0.06€/word for EN/FR, while others say that’s standard (https://www.proz.com/forum/french/365900-tarifs_agence_française.html). One thing is certain: this profession is not regulated and everyone asks for what they think is right according to what they have to offer...
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| The ProZ indicator is faulty and probably outdated, too | Feb 15 |
Hi Clement,
From what I have seen (from my own negotiations with agencies and end clients, as well as some publicly available data on tenders won by LSPs), I estimate agencies to add between 30% and 150% to the rate the translator charges. From this, they might pay, for instance, one or two rounds of proofreading, and their own costs.
Regarding the ProZ indicator:
First, the ProZ page showing the average rates reported by ProZ.com community members appears ... See more Hi Clement,
From what I have seen (from my own negotiations with agencies and end clients, as well as some publicly available data on tenders won by LSPs), I estimate agencies to add between 30% and 150% to the rate the translator charges. From this, they might pay, for instance, one or two rounds of proofreading, and their own costs.
Regarding the ProZ indicator:
First, the ProZ page showing the average rates reported by ProZ.com community members appears to give an average of all rates ever reported. So it will not be a good indicator of what rates are being charged (or reported) right now. For a suggestion to change this, see https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/364789-recalculate_community_rates_using_logged_in_users_only.html
Second, since this is not specified, the data are a mix of rates for agencies and end clients, in unknown proportions.
Third, the filter offered within the page to check for rates in a specific field of expertise does not work. At all. Since at least 2015.
Matthias ▲ Collapse
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It's one thing to discuss what is a fair rate, but the reality is quite another - we can't do anything if agencies are not willing to pay our rate. My highest rate for an agency I get a reasonable amount of work from is 0.08 EUR, and that took some time. This rate is also not ideal for producing top quality content - I have had to reduce my own standards to produce a quality product, but which remains profitable. I once called myself a "churner" on the forum here as I'm constantly producing cont... See more It's one thing to discuss what is a fair rate, but the reality is quite another - we can't do anything if agencies are not willing to pay our rate. My highest rate for an agency I get a reasonable amount of work from is 0.08 EUR, and that took some time. This rate is also not ideal for producing top quality content - I have had to reduce my own standards to produce a quality product, but which remains profitable. I once called myself a "churner" on the forum here as I'm constantly producing content at a consistently good level - but I don't get paid enough to go the extra mile and create a gleaming text ready for print, so I don't.
Direct clients start from 0.12 but can go much higher, especially for articles on art written by historians or philosophers (waffle talk). This is when I spend a lot more time on the text and provide a target text for print.
A lot of translators will say that they constantly provide top-notch work - I say that there are different levels. Agency work, which should be proofread in any case by the agency, and end-client work, which is ready for print.
However, I imagine the general freelancer agency rate still to be around 0.05 GBP in the UK as it was when I was a project manager, and 0.05 EUR in Spain as when I lived there.
I do wish translators were honest about their rates, but don't think this will happen any time soon. Take anything you find on here with a pinch of salt. ▲ Collapse
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patransword wrote:
It's one thing to discuss what is a fair rate, but the reality is quite another - we can't do anything if agencies are not willing to pay our rate. My highest rate for an agency I get a reasonable amount of work from is 0.08 EUR, and that took some time. This rate is also not ideal for producing top quality content - I have had to reduce my own standards to produce a quality product, but which remains profitable. I once called myself a "churner" on the forum here as I'm constantly producing content at a consistently good level - but I don't get paid enough to go the extra mile and create a gleaming text ready for print, so I don't.
Direct clients start from 0.12 but can go much higher, especially for articles on art written by historians or philosophers (waffle talk). This is when I spend a lot more time on the text and provide a target text for print.
A lot of translators will say that they constantly provide top-notch work - I say that there are different levels. Agency work, which should be proofread in any case by the agency, and end-client work, which is ready for print.
However, I imagine the general freelancer agency rate still to be around 0.05 GBP in the UK as it was when I was a project manager, and 0.05 EUR in Spain as when I lived there.
I do wish translators were honest about their rates, but don't think this will happen any time soon. Take anything you find on here with a pinch of salt.
If 5p and 5 cents EUR are rates for every word, or are people expected to give fuzzy match discounts on top of these rates?
I'm asking since I do have a per word flat rate and then a higher rate with agencies that expect me to apply a fuzzy match discount grid. This is since I do use the same software to increase my productivity, so a bit lower per word flat rate often in total comes up to more than my reasonably high 'fuzzy match discounts applied' rate, or in the worst case to approximately the same! Not always, but most of the time and especially on highly repetitive texts, or if I am working on similar texts for the same end client and half of the new job is already in my TM.
In the past 3 years, I think I've had one job where my 'fuzzy match discounts apply' rate came up to more in total for the job than I would have got had we applied my 'for every word' rate.
So, are people, in your opinion, charging 5p for every word or giving discounts on top of that as well?
[Edited at 2024-02-16 15:48 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:15
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Clément Marquet wrote:
To understand the price clients pay, what is the average mark-up of LSPs?
Various percentages have been mentioned or guessed at or revealed by people working at agencies, and they range from 10% to 50% to 200%. Keep in mind, though, that the price charged to the client may also include other services that also needs to be paid for, e.g. a proofreader or a second proofreader. So, if you get 10c per word and the two proofreaders get 3c each, and the agency charges 20c to the client, then their markup is a mere 4c... half of which goes to taxes and some of the rest goes to covering the cost of running a business. Translators sometimes try to guess the markup by posing as clients and getting a quote, but as in the above example, if the translator is paid 10c and the client is quoted 20c, it does not mean a 100% markup.
[Edited at 2024-02-16 09:14 GMT]
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Korana Lasić wrote:
So, are people, in your opinion, charging 5p for every word or giving discounts on top of that as well?
That wouldn't include fuzzy rates unfortunately. When I worked as a PM, we passed this discount on the final client.
Also, I know that many agencies simply get the text from the translator and then pass it on the final client. In that case, this would be 100% markup or more.
| | | | Keith Jackson
France
Local time: 22:15
Member (2017)
French to English
+ ...
I just received this offer from a global LSP:
"This is an update of project XXXXXXX
100% to 0 and 95-99 to 50% - please check the fuzzies"
And their rate:
Context match (ie, checking fuzzies) 3,570 source words Price 0.0000 Amount 0.00
New/AT (ie, translation) 724 Price 0.0600 Amount €43,44
What I really think is not printable. It amounts to a little over €0.01/word.
![]() 😡
[Edited at 2024-02-16 09:24 GMT]
[Edited at 2024-02-16 10:42 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 22:15
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Keith Jackson wrote: I just received this offer from a global LSP: "This is an update of project XXXXXXX 100% to 0 and 95-99 to 50% - please check the fuzzies" And their rate: Context match (ie, checking fuzzies) 3,570 source words Price 0.0000 Amount 0.00 New/AT (ie, translation) 724 Price 0.0600 Amount €43,44 What I really think is not printable. It amounts to a little over €0.01/word. ![]() 😡 [Edited at 2024-02-16 09:24 GMT] [Edited at 2024-02-16 10:42 GMT]
Context matches normally shouldn't be touched (it means sentences that have already been translated in the past in the exact same context), so it wouldn't be abnormal to not get paid for those, provided they don't expect you to check them. But apparently they do ? Then you obviously should be paid for that. One can also wonder why they ask you to check them (red flag, as far as I'm concerned).
Or do they just ask you to check the fuzzies ? A context match isn't a fuzzy.
| | | | Clément Marquet
Local time: 23:15
Member (2021)
Chinese to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Send rates with first email, let them ask you or quote for each project? | Feb 16 |
Thank you for all your answers here that are definitely helpful.
One more question, when you apply to an agency by email (not talking here about agencies with online profile where you have to give your rates):
1. do you send your rates in the application email
2. do you wait they ask for your rates (probably in their reply to your application email)
3. do you reply that you quote for each project and don't have a standard grid
4. you do something els... See more Thank you for all your answers here that are definitely helpful.
One more question, when you apply to an agency by email (not talking here about agencies with online profile where you have to give your rates):
1. do you send your rates in the application email
2. do you wait they ask for your rates (probably in their reply to your application email)
3. do you reply that you quote for each project and don't have a standard grid
4. you do something else ▲ Collapse
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patransword wrote: Korana Lasić wrote:
So, are people, in your opinion, charging 5p for every word or giving discounts on top of that as well? That wouldn't include fuzzy rates unfortunately. When I worked as a PM, we passed this discount on the final client. Also, I know that many agencies simply get the text from the translator and then pass it on the final client. In that case, this would be 100% markup or more.
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Answering your question: I haven’t applied to agencies for a long time (though this is probably going to change as I’m having a very slow month and either I’ll be flooded with work next month or…). In general, when I’m approached by a potential client, he/she has already done their homework and have a rough idea of what I charge. Anyway, I prefer quoting for each project, but agencies prefer a standard grid…
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If you’re an average translator applying for average work from an average agency, 9 cents for French sounds a bit on the high side to me.
It all depends on what you’re offering, and to whom.
I always state my price up front because I charge specialist rates and I don’t like having my time wasted.
That won’t necessarily stop them, of course. Last week I was approached by an international agency. There are limits to what that kind of agency will pay... See more If you’re an average translator applying for average work from an average agency, 9 cents for French sounds a bit on the high side to me.
It all depends on what you’re offering, and to whom.
I always state my price up front because I charge specialist rates and I don’t like having my time wasted.
That won’t necessarily stop them, of course. Last week I was approached by an international agency. There are limits to what that kind of agency will pay even for specialist Scandinavian pharma stuff, so I said my price was 15 cents. They said they couldn’t pay more than 11. I said never mind then. They came back and said ok we’ll pay 15 but can you lower your hourly rate to 30 euros, and I said no. Next they will agree to 45 an hour, I’m sure. But I doubt I’ll ever get any work from them anyway.
It’s a dance. You need to know your own worth and accept that you win some, you lose some, but generally if you have something they need then they will cave if you play hard ball. ▲ Collapse
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