| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Do you translate solely into your native language? Tópico cartaz: AnneMarieG
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| Good thinking | Apr 16, 2009 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
In fact, I prefer having very technical or complex texts being translated by native speakers of the source language, to ensure that every nuance is properly understood and transmitted. This requires final editing by a native speaker of the target language, of course.
I have nothing to add.
| | | | | That's only you | Apr 16, 2009 |
liz askew wrote:
I have been working with French and Spanish for 40+ years, but am I qualified/competent enough to translate into those languages. No!!
The fact that you judge that you are not qualified/competent to translate into French and Spanish doesn't give you the right to judge whether others are qualified/competent to translate into languages other than their native ones. Please, don't generalize.
| | | | PRen (X)
Canadá
Local time: 23:48
francês para inglês
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| Kudoz are one thing... | Apr 16, 2009 |
....full translations are another. Being able to answer one-word questions in one's source language does not necessarily mean ability to translate a document. I agree with liz, and admire her willingness to take a stand on this thorny issue. I for one am tired of seeing endless claims of native ability in two languages (one of them English) by translators who then quite eloquently contradict their claims in the English postings in the fora. Good enough for a forum posting? Yes. Good enough for ... See more ....full translations are another. Being able to answer one-word questions in one's source language does not necessarily mean ability to translate a document. I agree with liz, and admire her willingness to take a stand on this thorny issue. I for one am tired of seeing endless claims of native ability in two languages (one of them English) by translators who then quite eloquently contradict their claims in the English postings in the fora. Good enough for a forum posting? Yes. Good enough for a quality translation? No. The prepositions give you away every time, and yes, they matter.
As for the oft-repeated story of countless "certified" and "degreed" translators who can't translate their way out of a paper bag, and the legions of the uneducated who produce seamless translations every time - that has NOT been my experience working with translators and marking translation exams in Canada. Quite the contrary. I can think of only two notable exceptions in the many years I have been involved in Canada's professional association(s) - the rest invariably fail the translation exams, and often, in both directions. I sense a direct correlation between claims of native ability in more than one language and over-confidence in one's translation ability in any language. ▲ Collapse
| | | | wonita (X)
China
Local time: 22:48
| My limitation | Apr 16, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
Kudoz are one thing, full translations are another. Being able to answer one-word questions in one's source language does not necessarily mean ability to translate a document.
When translating into a foreign language, finding the correct terms is only a minor problem. It is much more difficult for me to organize my sentences in a really idiomatic and fluent way. That's why I need a native proofreader to check my translation. Often, there is no grammar mistake in a sentence, but it just sounds "awkward" to a native speaker, which I could never know.
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PRen (X)
Canadá
Local time: 23:48
francês para inglês
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Bin Tiede wrote: PRen wrote:
Kudoz are one thing, full translations are another. Being able to answer one-word questions in one's source language does not necessarily mean ability to translate a document.
When translating into a foreign language, finding the correct terms is only a minor problem. It is much more difficult for me to organize my sentences in a really idiomatic and fluent way. That's why I need a native proofreader to check my translation. Often, there is no grammar mistake in a sentence, but it just sounds "awkward" to a native speaker, which I could never know.
...and if there are enough native-language translators in that combination, why would you risk your reputation?
| | | | | The Indian Subcontinent | Apr 16, 2009 |
Sushan Harshe wrote:
I appreciate there disscussions.
Well translators from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka would translate both ways I guess. After all English is an official language of India as I understand it.
Would that be right Sushan?
| | | | Steven Capsuto 
Estados Unidos
Local time: 22:48
Membro (2004)
espanhol para inglês
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| Mostly into my native language, but not always | Apr 16, 2009 |
About 90% of my work is into my native language, English.
I'm also ATA certified for English-Spanish work, and my Spanish-speaking clients tell me I'm a good EN>ES translator. However, I prefer to work into English because I can do it faster, which means more money per hour.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
Índia
Local time: 08:18
Membro (2006)
inglês para híndi
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SITE LOCALIZER | I regularly translate into English | Apr 17, 2009 |
I translate in English, Hindi, Malayalam and Gujarati.
Of these the last two are only source languages for me.
Malayalam is a mother-tongue (I have two, Tamil and Malayalam; only people who are familiar with the linguistic diversity of India will understand how this can be so) for me in which I have even had initial education, but it is still only source language, and I will not even think of translating into it.
Same is the case with Gujarati, which I came... See more I translate in English, Hindi, Malayalam and Gujarati.
Of these the last two are only source languages for me.
Malayalam is a mother-tongue (I have two, Tamil and Malayalam; only people who are familiar with the linguistic diversity of India will understand how this can be so) for me in which I have even had initial education, but it is still only source language, and I will not even think of translating into it.
Same is the case with Gujarati, which I came into contact quite late in my life (early twenties), and even though I have close to a quarter century of interaction with Gujarati and I live in a Gujarati-speaking area, I will never translate into Gujarati.
English and Hindi are my main languages, which I have formally studied at school. In Hindi I have take up my education up to Master's level. I regularly translate into both these languages from all the languages mentioned above.
The fifth language that I know is my other mother-tongue, Tamil, which I speak in the family. But I know it least. I never translate into or from Tamil.
So native language/mother-tongue has nothing to do with the quality of the translation. It all hinges on how proficient you are in the languages you are translating into and from. ▲ Collapse
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Balasubramaniam L.
Índia
Local time: 08:18
Membro (2006)
inglês para híndi
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SITE LOCALIZER | That could be a dangerous generalisation | Apr 17, 2009 |
lai an wrote:
Well translators from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka would translate both ways I guess. After all English is an official language of India as I understand it.
Would that be right Sushan?
That is too much of a generalisation. In India, only about 2% of the people understand English. And understanding English does not necessarily mean you have a level of proficiency in it that is sufficient for doing translation.
The problem with many Indians translating into English is that they may not know the source language, that is, another Indian language well enough. Many of them have lost their source language due to English education. English-medium schools in India discourage their students from speaking their mother-tongue and force them to speak English. This effectively destroys their ability in their mother-tongue.
So when such people turn into translators, even though their mother tongue may be an Indian language, they might have only rudimentary knowledge of their mother-tongue.
A further point to consider is that in all Indian schools English is taught by non-native teachers, that is by people for whom English is not the mother-tongue and hence they have an imperfect understanding of the semantics, syntax and pronunciation of English. So most Indians speak and write English in an imperfect way. There are of course people in India who wield the English language with amazing dexterity, but they are a handful.
So don't jump into assumptions that all Indian translators are ambidextrous in English and their native language, you can come to serious grief if you do.
The safest test is to ask Indian translators what the medium of school education has been in their case. If it is English, then be wary of using them for translations into Indian languages, they might not know the target Indian language well enough.
| | | | | Risk could be taken | Apr 17, 2009 |
The safest test is to ask Indian translators what the medium of school education has been in their case. If it is English, then be wary of using them for translations into Indian languages, they might not know the target Indian language well enough
I can only partly agree with Balasubramaniam. This means they disqualify themselves to be called native speakers if they have not been formally educated in that particular indic language? There are umpteen examples where persons who are native in Marathi have actually authored Gujarati books. They have not had any formal education in Gujarati. Thus what you say could be true for many cases but definitely not the rule in my opinion.
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finlândia
Local time: 05:48
Membro (2008)
inglês para finlandês
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| One more time... | Apr 17, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
...and if there are enough native-language translators in that combination, why would you risk your reputation?
And when there aren't?
So if you can't have a perfect translation by a native translator, should there be no translation at all, whatever the consequences may be for someone needing the translation?
I hate to be repeating this over and over again. On an idealistic level I fully agree with you, but the world just doesn't work that way, and I am genuinely interested in how you would implement this principle in the real world?
I don't see any claims of being native or bilingual among Finnish translators working from Finnish to other languages - they just translate, because if they don't, who will?
| | | | | English to Russian? Not for me, thanks! | Apr 17, 2009 |
I think any non-native Russian speaker would be quite mad to translate into Russian! There are, however, plenty of Russians who translate into English. And there are clear economic reasons for this. I work in Moscow, and even here, in Russia's wealthiest city, the equivalent of 1000 GBP a month would be a decent salary for a secretary. In other cities, salaries are much lower. Unless the translation is going to produce definite economic benefits, you can't very well expect companies to pay thei... See more I think any non-native Russian speaker would be quite mad to translate into Russian! There are, however, plenty of Russians who translate into English. And there are clear economic reasons for this. I work in Moscow, and even here, in Russia's wealthiest city, the equivalent of 1000 GBP a month would be a decent salary for a secretary. In other cities, salaries are much lower. Unless the translation is going to produce definite economic benefits, you can't very well expect companies to pay their own full-time staff, say, 400 GBP a month, and then go and pay a translator, say, 300 GBP for 2 days' work. Sure, there are companies that can afford to do so. But a lot simply can't. ▲ Collapse
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| In all fairness Viktoria ... | Apr 17, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote: liz askew wrote:
I have been working with French and Spanish for 40+ years, but am I qualified/competent enough to translate into those languages. No!!
The fact that you judge that you are not qualified/competent to translate into French and Spanish doesn't give you the right to judge whether others are qualified/competent to translate into languages other than their native ones. Please, don't generalize.
... generalising is exactly what Liz didn't do -- she made it quite clear she was talking about herself and herself only. Read her further postings too.
| | | | Anne-Marie Grant (X)
Local time: 03:48
francês para inglês
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| I have been humbled | Apr 17, 2009 |
by some of the profoundly helpful answers posted by non-native English speakers in the French-English and German-English sections of Kudoz. Yes, there are times when only a native English speaker will do, but I have also seen some instances where native English speakers have misunderstood the source text and the non-natives have come to the rescue brilliantly.
I have definitely changed my mind on this issue since I joined ProZ and I now truly appreciate the international nature of ... See more by some of the profoundly helpful answers posted by non-native English speakers in the French-English and German-English sections of Kudoz. Yes, there are times when only a native English speaker will do, but I have also seen some instances where native English speakers have misunderstood the source text and the non-natives have come to the rescue brilliantly.
I have definitely changed my mind on this issue since I joined ProZ and I now truly appreciate the international nature of the help on offer here, even if the prepositions are all over the place. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Barbara Schmidt (X)
Alemanha
Local time: 04:48
inglês para alemão
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| leave it to the client | Apr 17, 2009 |
Personally I feel quite comfortable translating either into English or into German. German is my mother tongue, but I studied English at university level, lived in the United States for so many years (we also spoke English at home) and wrote all my university papers in English - add to that all these years of translating experience and you may understand that at this point in time I feel quite comfortable going either way.
For me, the decisive factor is the subject matter - let it b... See more Personally I feel quite comfortable translating either into English or into German. German is my mother tongue, but I studied English at university level, lived in the United States for so many years (we also spoke English at home) and wrote all my university papers in English - add to that all these years of translating experience and you may understand that at this point in time I feel quite comfortable going either way.
For me, the decisive factor is the subject matter - let it be science, medicine, or technology, and I am quite happy because I understand what it is all about and how to express it in writing. Then again, some other texts I wouldn't touch even in my native tongue!
In the past I have had colleagues, English native speakers, send me their medical translations to do under their names because I did them better and could explain to them whatever it was they didn't understand.
I've also seen perfectly written scientifc texts messed up by native speakers assisted by high-school dictionaries.
Then again, I lived in the Netherlands for 13 years, spoke the language fluently after 6 months but wouldn't ever translate into that language because I never systematically trained to write in it.
Ergo, there isn't any general conclusion for me. I would never attempt to judge other people's skills, and I suspect that there is considerable variation - and, surely, like some of you said, it might depend greatly on the situation as well.
The solution for me is to leave it up to the clients. I tell them how it is and let them decide. If they trust me with their English texts, that is fine and I am glad to do them. If they don't, they wouldn't ever be satisfied anyhow, would they. So I just leave it up to them.
And if there is a text I cannot do for whatever reason, then I always let them know.
This has worked just fine for me. But that is just personal, I think everybody else has quite valid viewpoints as well. ▲ Collapse
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