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Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

(indipendenza) nei confronti di

English translation:

(independence from) in dealings with; vis-à-vis; in relation to; as regards;

Added to glossary by Adrian MM.
Sep 6, 2019 22:03
4 yrs ago
16 viewers *
Italian term

nei confronti della

Italian to English Law/Patents Law (general) Freelance Contract
Hi :)
I am a bit stuck.. could you please help me?

"Attestazioni di indipendenza nei confronti della società Cliente".

Grazie mille
Proposed translations (English)
5 in dealings with; vis-à-vis; in relation to; as regards
4 From an (employer)
3 -1 Towards the
Change log

Sep 8, 2019 16:37: Adrian MM. changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2622887">Anna Scognamiglio's</a> old entry - "nei confronti della "" to ""in dealings with; vis-à-vis; in relation to; as regards""

Sep 9, 2019 08:10: Adrian MM. changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2688125">Adrian MM.'s</a> old entry - " (indipendenza) nei confronti di"" to ""in dealings with; vis-à-vis; in relation to; as regards; (independence from)""

Discussion

Lara Barnett Sep 8, 2019:
Towards "Towards" indicates movement of an object or person, for example in Italian you would say something like: "ha camminato verso di me" or "Ha camminato verso la sedia". In English we can also use this term to describe the way that somebody has behaved, for example "he was aggressive towards me", but there is not much else it is used for.
Lara Barnett Sep 7, 2019:
@ Luigi But in English you cannot say "independence towards xxx". This is grammatically incorrect because prepositions in English (as they are in many other languages, including Italian), have specific uses and combine with nouns, verbs etc in specific ways. You cannot just put a preposition anywhere without considering its grammatical place in the context. It is wrong and misleading for the asker if you agree with an answer that is incorrect.
Adrian MM. Sep 7, 2019:
@ Luigi, non-adversarially independence toward(s) IMO still doesn't work in ENG and it is news to me that there is an adversarial or confrontational edge to 'nei confonti di' (Garzanti 'dictionary': nei Vs. confronti> 'towards you'; Collins Sansoni: a confronto di > in comparison or compared with.

In UK company or partnership law, 'in dealings with' (the co. or outsiders) is bog-standard terminology.
Luigi Argentino Sep 7, 2019:
Sorry if I reply so late but I had some commitments. I didn't think to trigger so much discussion.
In my opinion in this case I translated "nei confonti della " as "in rapporto a" or "in relazione a" because I don't think (always in my opinion ) that the meaning of "nei confronti della " could be adversative.
So my tranlation is:
"Certificates of independence towards the Client company"
I add some links to explain better my choice:

https://www.thoughtco.com/toward-vs-towards-4154727

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toward
Lara Barnett Sep 7, 2019:
@ Anna What is(are) the sentence (or couple of sentences) that fall alongside
"Attestazioni di indipendenza nei confronti della società Cliente" ?
Lara Barnett Sep 7, 2019:
@ Luigi Argentino & Marco Belcastro Bara How would you intent to structure your suggested answer into the entire phrase?
Anna Scognamiglio (asker) Sep 7, 2019:
I'm actually translating a "Contratto di Collaborazione Autonoma" (Freelance Contract). The word "Indipendenza" only appears in the two paragraphs I mentioned earlier.
Lara Barnett Sep 7, 2019:
@Anna But it would help if you could show more of the surrounding context of this actual occurrence.
Anna Scognamiglio (asker) Sep 7, 2019:
Hi :) Thank you all for trying to help. It's actually part of a list (Documenti allegati:)
The word Indipendenza appears also in another paragraph:
A titolo esemplificativo e non esaustivo costituiscono giusta causa di risoluzione del contratto l'inosservanza delle norme XXX di Indipendenza, di gestione delle informazioni in sicurezza e delle prescrizioni e dei principi contenuti nel Codice Etico...." Hope this helps.
Lara Barnett Sep 7, 2019:
@ Anna Could you please give more of the context here?
philgoddard Sep 7, 2019:
It means either from or to, depending on the context.

Proposed translations

20 hrs
Selected

in dealings with; vis-à-vis; in relation to; as regards

- answered in order of (my own) pref. - 'in dealings with' being standard UK co. and partnership-speak - and drawing on many previous KudoZ entries for the (surely, non-confrontational non-adversarial) term. I think in dealings with works here vs. when dealing with.

No Spanish equivalent for a change, but does approximate semantically to 'para con' - even if the latter, exceptionally, does not denote a con trick.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2019-09-07 19:07:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BTW, the CL of 5 had been entered inadvertently.... The first and last alternative answers are a 3-4.
Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian-to-english/law-general/6047698-nei-confronti-della-garante.html

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian-to-english/business-commerce-general/5269933-nei-confronti-di.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Lara Barnett : This is actually a little clumsy in my opinion.
21 hrs
I take your point and have incorporated in the glossary your independence-specific suggestion, the vis-à-vis answer you had already accepted in the first weblink arguably also working in this context - & in most others (I have seen in the last 40 years).
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Grazie"
-1
35 mins

Towards the

I found also "against the" but I prefer the first choice
Note from asker:
Grazie mille :)
Peer comment(s):
agree Marco Belcastro Bara
5 hrs
Grazie Marco
disagree philgoddard : Sorry, but you can't say "independence towards", or "against".
8 hrs
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29087751
disagree Lara Barnett : Towards is the correct direction, but you cannot say it in this way.// But "towards" does not mean anything int his context, so how can you continue to recommend it to the asker?
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 17 hrs

From an (employer)

"A trade union which is on the list of trade unions may apply for a certificate of
independence. Independence IS DEFINED AS MEANING INDEPENDENCE FROM AN EMPLOYER or group of employers. This chapter discusses independence and explains how such applications are dealt with and their outcome."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
Something went wrong...
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