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Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

Avvocato

English translation:

Avvocato

Added to glossary by Tom in London
Jan 28, 2012 23:03
12 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Italian term

Avvocato

Italian to English Art/Literary Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
I'm translating a screenplay in which one character is continually referred to as "Avvocato", which of course would not be translated into English (al limite I could use sir in come cases).

The problem is that he's NOT a lawyer, and so always points this out -

X - Grazie, avvocato.

Y - Non sono avvocato.

I'm sure you can see my problem, but can you help me solve it?

Thank you muchly in advance.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 Avvocato
3 +4 counselor
4 +1 Prof
4 Attorney / Lawyer
4 advocate
3 M'Lord
3 Master
3 -1 Judge
Change log

Jan 30, 2012 19:55: Russell Jones changed "Term asked" from "Avvocato (as title)" to "Avvocato"

Feb 5, 2012 17:10: Tom in London Created KOG entry

Discussion

Simon Lewis (asker) Feb 5, 2012:
Thanks everyone for your contributions, I went with Tom's idea in the end. All excellent input for a thorny problem (also relevant for Dott., Ing. etc. etc.) Curiously enough, I'm onto another screenplay which is about a real lawyer, and is based on a book which has been translated into English. Leafing through the (American) translation, I notice that this problem has been addressed by using "counselor", but it just sounds wrong to me. Makes me think of someone with crystals on their desk.
Barbara Carrara Jan 29, 2012:
On avvocato and dottore '2. In Italia, grado accademico che si conferisce con la laurea: nominare, diventare d.; conferire il titolo, il grado di d.; d. in lettere, in medicina, in giurisprudenza, ecc. (frasi che, nell’uso ufficiale e burocr., possono essere riferite anche a donne). Nel passato, titolo che si dava soprattutto agli uomini di legge, corrispondente all’odierno avvocato: il d. Azzeccagarbugli; oggi, in genere, si attribuisce a ogni persona laureata (e nelle scritte si abbrevia in dott. o dr.), sia premesso al nome, sia assol. come vocativo o appellativo...'
(http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/dottore/)
Simon Lewis (asker) Jan 29, 2012:
Never knew that about Agnelli
Simon Lewis (asker) Jan 29, 2012:
The problem is that Italians are extremely hierarchical and use professional qualifications as a formal and deferential way to address someone. It appears to everyone (in the south) that this (northern) chap is a lawyer, and so they address him as "Avvocato". He is also sometimes referred to as "dottore", which is a whole other bag of worms, but I can get round that one.
Lara Barnett Jan 29, 2012:
Context Is there a particular reason, or element of the plot, that causes the character to use the legal term? For example, is there something particular that happens each time the character uses this "avvocato" term? And what is the wording for this Please?
Barbara Carrara Jan 29, 2012:
Simon As you may know, 'l'Avvocato' (capitalised) was the most commonly used title to refer to Gianni Agnelli (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Agnelli).
fionn Jan 28, 2012:
Is it important to maintain the idea of a lawyer? If it is not, I would suggest 'Doctor' or 'Professor' as these are the only cases (I can think of) in English where we refer to or address someone by their professional role.

Proposed translations

+6
14 mins
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)
Selected

Avvocato

Assuming this is an Italian film whose Italian flavour you might want to retain, you might say something like:

X - Thanks, Avvocato.

Y - I'm not a lawyer.

(every time it happens).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2012-01-28 23:23:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This reminds me of this conversation I'm always having with Italians:

X - Voi inglesi...
Tom - Non sono inglese.
Note from asker:
You might be right, Tom, I've left quite a few Italian things in per forza, so this might end up being another one
Peer comment(s):
agree Marco Solinas : I like them both
5 mins
agree Barbara Carrara : Best way to deal with this, I think.
7 hrs
agree Ivana UK
13 hrs
agree Yvonne Gallagher
15 hrs
agree Lorraine Buckley (X) : works well: I'm not a lawyer/dottore I don't have a degree
1 day 1 hr
agree Susy Sinigag (X)
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks everyone, I went with Tom's in the end"
-1
9 mins
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

Judge

Would it be too far fetched to use "judge" instead?
Note from asker:
I thought of "your honour", but I think it's too far off, thanks anyway
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tom in London : I thought of that too but concluded that it was too far-off
3 mins
Something went wrong...
+4
14 mins
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

counselor

maybe?
Peer comment(s):
agree Marco Solinas : I like them both
5 mins
agree Russell Jones : Excellent idea for US audience; unfortunately "counsellor" in UK is not a lawyer, it's counsel, which is not a form of address.
20 mins
agree mlreid : Counsel(l)or reminds me of the ***consigliere***, the character you find in The Godfather. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consigliere - an idea.
12 hrs
agree Yvonne Gallagher : think we've seen enough US movies now to understand this meaning of word and of the "consigliere"
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
22 mins
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

M'Lord

could this do?

it sounds appropriately reverent, with a twist of British humor

"Thank you, m'Lord ..."
"Dinner is served, m'Lord" etc...

Note from asker:
Yes, "M'lud" and "Your Honour" both sound great, but a judge is just too far removed, I'm afraid
Something went wrong...
7 hrs
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

Attorney / Lawyer

.
Something went wrong...
12 hrs
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

advocate

Use a literal approach and give it a little local flavour, which clearly can't be avoided. If he is always saying he is not an avvocato, he must at som point say he has never practiced as a lawer..
Something went wrong...
13 hrs
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

Master

As this seems to be relating more to a hierarchical form of address which has been passed down historically, rather than just purely a reference to somebody's profession, maybe one way of dealing with it is to use this more general and archaic form of address used in the same way in older English.
For example:

"Master"

"I am not your Master"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2012-01-29 12:22:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This loses some of tire legal aspect of the idea, but keeps the conversational flow and the sense of hierarchy and history.
Something went wrong...
+1
16 hrs
Italian term (edited): Avvocato (as title)

Prof

A plausible informal term of address from a less educated person to someone they (mistakenly) perceive as being more educated than them. I haven't seen anywhere here that the legal aspect of 'avvocato' was important in this case.
Note from asker:
Thanks Oliver, not a bad idea but unfortunately the legal aspect is important - the guy is always quoting laws and actually expects people to follow the rules, which the people down south interpret as him being a lawyer
Peer comment(s):
agree Daniela Zambrini
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
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