Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Apr 16 17:24
1 mo ago
42 viewers *
French term
défet
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
estampe
Context: 19th century landscape print, the description is "Estampe ; Bois de bout imprimé ; défet"
The curator added an explanation: "cad. une feuille pas reliée, c'est un terme plutôt technique pour dire une feuille qui est dépareillée"
I have terms like loose leaf and detached/separated in mind, but perhaps there is more accurate terminology for this?
Thanks!
The curator added an explanation: "cad. une feuille pas reliée, c'est un terme plutôt technique pour dire une feuille qui est dépareillée"
I have terms like loose leaf and detached/separated in mind, but perhaps there is more accurate terminology for this?
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +5 | oversheet | Bourth |
4 +1 | an unbound or standalone sheet | Sakshi Garg |
Proposed translations
+5
4 hrs
Selected
oversheet
• DÉFETn. m.
XIIIe siècle, defect, « manque, défaut » ; XVIIIe siècle, au sens actuel. Emprunté du latin defectus, « disparition, défaillance, manque, défaut ». TYPOGR. Feuille ou fraction de feuille d'un ouvrage imprimé, qui reste en excédent après l'assemblage. On conserve les défets pour remplacer éventuellement les feuilles endommagées ou égarées d'un ouvrage
[CNRTL]
Défet : en conservation-préventive, feuillet ou élément quelconque dérelié du volume qui sera conservé sans être remonté dans le volume.
Here -
https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2014/tpsgc... https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/fiche-gdt/fiche/...
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...
we find 'oversheet' for défet. It might do at a pinch but I remain to be convinced.
Getting there …
• défet [oversheet]
Feuille superflue et rejetée par l'imprimeur pour sa mauvaise qualité d'impression. Il peut s’agir également de feuilles ou cahiers dépareillés restants après brochage des ouvrages et avec lesquels on ne peut former des exemplaires complets.
https://www.lectura.plus/3143-glossaire-de-la-bibliophilie-c...
Also here: https://books.google.fr/books?id=nNePEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA330&lpg=P...
Allowance, overcount, oversheets, plus sheets - Additional paper required to compensate for sheets inevitably spoiled during makeready, start-up and production (waste)
https://www.koenig-bauer.com/fileadmin/user_upload/KBA_Repor...
Ichthyologia Ohiensis. B.M. Lexington, Ky. Separately published from oversheets, from same type, as the papers appearing in the Western Review and Miscellaneous Magazine, 1819-20 [ … ] American Manual of the grape vines. B.M. 12°. Philadelphia. [Reprint of the article on Vitis in Medical Flora Vol. 2, pp. 121-180, 1830. Made up of oversheets with eight drawings.]
https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/pdf/10.3366/jsbnh.1943.1.1...
Oversheets — Signatures or sheets left over after complete copies are gathered and bound.
https://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/the_printers_diction...
[The Printer's Dictionary of Technical Terms, 1912]
I'm convinced. Chapeau to those Canadian lexicographers.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2024-04-17 09:40:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Theoretically a défet is, as I understand it, a sheet left over after a run of books has been printed. It might be an extra sheet programmed in the print to allow for replacement should any damage occur to a book during binding, or maybe its a sheet from a book too badly damaged to be sold. Also, these days, lots of old books with attractive illustrations are taken apart and the illustrations sold as framed prints, etc. while the rest is pulped.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2024-04-19 00:26:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
An interesting dilemma for the translator! The curator may have made a mistake in using a word that will undoubtedly be understood only by experts in the field of printing and bookbinding. An equivalent word exists, but should it be used, leaving the English-speaking visitor equally as perplexed as the French? Even if défet appears in my Lexis and Larousse dictionaries (but, strangely, not in Alain Rey's historical dictionary), I doubt it is part of the vocabulary of ordinary gallery-goers. 'Oversheet', on the other hand, appears as such in none of my dictionaries, not even the (albeit small) ones on paper, printing and bookbinding, so it is even less likely to be understood by English speakers.
Or should the translation be 'dumbed-down' so as to be understandable by Joe Bloggs? And should the curator be invited to adjust the French so that it is equally understandable by Jean Martin?
Note that Martin H. Manser's little dictionary of Printing and Publishing Terms defines 'overs' as 'Paper supplied beyond the ordered number to compensate for sheets spoilt during production', which lends weight to 'oversheet' for the companion term for an extra printed sheet compensating for damage.
Also '
Overs
Overruns, the quantity of items produced over the quantity that was originally ordered. Also referred to as any paper spoiled in the process of printing
http://printingtips.com/glossary-term/t--1653/overs.asp
Overrun – Number of pieces printed or paper made in excess of the quantity ordered.
Overs – Printed pieces in an overrun.
https://www.trumbullprinting.com/printterms/
Overs:
The quantity of unit production, for example, books and sheets, delivered to the customer above the net amount ordered, usually uncharged at a run-on rate; also allowance to cover wastage.
https://www.webmartuk.com/guides-whitepapers/glossary-printi...
Overs: Copies printed over the amount specified, needed for make-readies* and to compensate for spoilage
https://www.umsl.edu/printmail/printing-glossary.html
* "1) Make Ready is used as a phrasal verb to describe the initial set-up and adjustment process needed to prepare an offset printing press for a production run.
2) Make Ready is also used as a noun to signify the extra paper needed for printing test sheets while fine-tuning the press settings prior to the actual production run."
https://www.colorvisionprinting.com/blog/offset-printing-wha...
XIIIe siècle, defect, « manque, défaut » ; XVIIIe siècle, au sens actuel. Emprunté du latin defectus, « disparition, défaillance, manque, défaut ». TYPOGR. Feuille ou fraction de feuille d'un ouvrage imprimé, qui reste en excédent après l'assemblage. On conserve les défets pour remplacer éventuellement les feuilles endommagées ou égarées d'un ouvrage
[CNRTL]
Défet : en conservation-préventive, feuillet ou élément quelconque dérelié du volume qui sera conservé sans être remonté dans le volume.
Here -
https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2014/tpsgc... https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/fiche-gdt/fiche/...
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...
we find 'oversheet' for défet. It might do at a pinch but I remain to be convinced.
Getting there …
• défet [oversheet]
Feuille superflue et rejetée par l'imprimeur pour sa mauvaise qualité d'impression. Il peut s’agir également de feuilles ou cahiers dépareillés restants après brochage des ouvrages et avec lesquels on ne peut former des exemplaires complets.
https://www.lectura.plus/3143-glossaire-de-la-bibliophilie-c...
Also here: https://books.google.fr/books?id=nNePEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA330&lpg=P...
Allowance, overcount, oversheets, plus sheets - Additional paper required to compensate for sheets inevitably spoiled during makeready, start-up and production (waste)
https://www.koenig-bauer.com/fileadmin/user_upload/KBA_Repor...
Ichthyologia Ohiensis. B.M. Lexington, Ky. Separately published from oversheets, from same type, as the papers appearing in the Western Review and Miscellaneous Magazine, 1819-20 [ … ] American Manual of the grape vines. B.M. 12°. Philadelphia. [Reprint of the article on Vitis in Medical Flora Vol. 2, pp. 121-180, 1830. Made up of oversheets with eight drawings.]
https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/pdf/10.3366/jsbnh.1943.1.1...
Oversheets — Signatures or sheets left over after complete copies are gathered and bound.
https://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/the_printers_diction...
[The Printer's Dictionary of Technical Terms, 1912]
I'm convinced. Chapeau to those Canadian lexicographers.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2024-04-17 09:40:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Theoretically a défet is, as I understand it, a sheet left over after a run of books has been printed. It might be an extra sheet programmed in the print to allow for replacement should any damage occur to a book during binding, or maybe its a sheet from a book too badly damaged to be sold. Also, these days, lots of old books with attractive illustrations are taken apart and the illustrations sold as framed prints, etc. while the rest is pulped.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2024-04-19 00:26:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
An interesting dilemma for the translator! The curator may have made a mistake in using a word that will undoubtedly be understood only by experts in the field of printing and bookbinding. An equivalent word exists, but should it be used, leaving the English-speaking visitor equally as perplexed as the French? Even if défet appears in my Lexis and Larousse dictionaries (but, strangely, not in Alain Rey's historical dictionary), I doubt it is part of the vocabulary of ordinary gallery-goers. 'Oversheet', on the other hand, appears as such in none of my dictionaries, not even the (albeit small) ones on paper, printing and bookbinding, so it is even less likely to be understood by English speakers.
Or should the translation be 'dumbed-down' so as to be understandable by Joe Bloggs? And should the curator be invited to adjust the French so that it is equally understandable by Jean Martin?
Note that Martin H. Manser's little dictionary of Printing and Publishing Terms defines 'overs' as 'Paper supplied beyond the ordered number to compensate for sheets spoilt during production', which lends weight to 'oversheet' for the companion term for an extra printed sheet compensating for damage.
Also '
Overs
Overruns, the quantity of items produced over the quantity that was originally ordered. Also referred to as any paper spoiled in the process of printing
http://printingtips.com/glossary-term/t--1653/overs.asp
Overrun – Number of pieces printed or paper made in excess of the quantity ordered.
Overs – Printed pieces in an overrun.
https://www.trumbullprinting.com/printterms/
Overs:
The quantity of unit production, for example, books and sheets, delivered to the customer above the net amount ordered, usually uncharged at a run-on rate; also allowance to cover wastage.
https://www.webmartuk.com/guides-whitepapers/glossary-printi...
Overs: Copies printed over the amount specified, needed for make-readies* and to compensate for spoilage
https://www.umsl.edu/printmail/printing-glossary.html
* "1) Make Ready is used as a phrasal verb to describe the initial set-up and adjustment process needed to prepare an offset printing press for a production run.
2) Make Ready is also used as a noun to signify the extra paper needed for printing test sheets while fine-tuning the press settings prior to the actual production run."
https://www.colorvisionprinting.com/blog/offset-printing-wha...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jennifer Levey
4 hrs
|
agree |
Richard George Elliott
: The Dictionnaire bilingue de l'édition (Philippe Schuwer) also gives "oversheets" for "défets". This would correspond with the curator's "un terme plutôt technique" if he/she means in a publishing rather than an art historical sense.
9 hrs
|
agree |
Emmanuella
12 hrs
|
agree |
philgoddard
: Well done - I hadn't come across this term before. If this is an exhibition text for the general public, a sentence of explanation might be in order.
17 hrs
|
agree |
Christopher Crockett
: I agree, albeit reluctantly. Simply because i have **never** ever seen this trerm used. OtOh, i would have (always have) called those relics of unbound sheets "quires"; but i, too, bow to the Canadian specialists --and their arcane, specialist jargon.
1 day 15 mins
|
Thanks. A quire is a specific number of sheets of paper. And there are a number of non-Canadian refs, including the 1912 dict. from Bahwston Mass.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much for the detailed and convincing response."
+1
22 mins
an unbound or standalone sheet
Potentially part of a larger collection but not bound with other sheets, highlighting its singular nature or its separation from a main body of work....
Needle 'n Thread: Organizing Embroidery Threads for a Large Project:
This article discusses various methods of organizing embroidery threads, which can be relevant for managing loose or separated materials in crafting and art projects.
https://www.needlenthread.com/2015/06/organizing-embroidery-...
This provides an insight into handling and organizing materials that are not bound together, similar to loose leaf or detached items in art and printing contexts.
Needle 'n Thread: Organizing Embroidery Threads for a Large Project:
This article discusses various methods of organizing embroidery threads, which can be relevant for managing loose or separated materials in crafting and art projects.
https://www.needlenthread.com/2015/06/organizing-embroidery-...
This provides an insight into handling and organizing materials that are not bound together, similar to loose leaf or detached items in art and printing contexts.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Christopher Crockett
: Bourth vis, techically (and jargonistically) correct; however, i'd go with "an unbound printed sheet or quire."
1 day 4 hrs
|
Discussion
http://www.dictionnaire-academie.fr/article/A9D0775
IMPR., le plus souvent au plur. Feuillets dépareillés d'un ouvrage d'édition, qui ne peuvent servir à former des exemplaires complets mais qui peuvent servir à compléter des exemplaires défectueux. Les exemplaires dits de passe, destinés à couvrir les défets en cours de fabrication (Civilis. écr.,1939, p. 1809):
Ses cuivres disparus, ne pouvant plus compléter même les exemplaires dépareillés de sa Flore qu'il possédait encore, il avait cédé à vil prix à un libraire-brocanteur planches et texte, comme défets. Hugo, Les Misérables,t. 2, 1862, p. 261.
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/défet