French term
standards éthiques de bien public
"
....
Adhésion aux valeurs éthiques
La Fondation doit disposer d'un code de conduite en se dotant d’une Charte éthique (Annexe 2), permettant :
D’agir pour la promotion des droits de XXX dans le strict respect desdits droits,
D’assurer la protection et le haut niveau de réputation de AAA et de BBB ainsi que de la Marque AAA,
D’assurer la protection de ses donateurs, des personnes qui soutiennent AAA, de son personnel, de ses bénévoles et ainsi d’assurer son futur à long terme,
D’adhérer aux principes éthiques et aux valeurs de BBB,
De respecter les standards éthiques de bien public conformes au Comité de la Charte des organismes faisant appel à la générosité publique,
De mettre en place des contrôles internes, une gestion prudente des risques et des moyens de prévention des crises,
..."
"Organismes faisant appel à la générosité publique" appears to be "charitable organisations".
Seems to be referring to some supposed ethnical standards which are, maybe, specially adopted by "public establishments" perhaps. "Bien public" has come up... https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/government-poli... ... but "no acceptable answer".
Proposed translations
moral standards promoting the common good
Gemeinwohl DEU/ENG in the first ProZ weblink means something like the common good or 'common weal'.Everyone everywhere shares a common moral code. All agree that cooperating, promoting the common good, is the right thing to do.
Public morality seems another avenue to to take, as - in French - there is an intellectual property clash of 'moral' with the meaning of moral (intellectual property and non-material) rights.
Cut to the contra bonos mores /public policy case of Shaw v. Director of Public Prosecutions, House of Lords 1962Defendant, Shaw, published a booklet called the 'Ladies' Directory', which advertised the names and addresses of prostitutes, included their pictures, ...
The common good has been an important ethical concept in a society that has encouraged many to "look out for Number 1. + " Everyone everywhere shares a common moral code. All agree that cooperating, promoting the common good, is the right thing to do
IATE fr bien public en public benefit vs. fr assurance des biens publics en insurance of public property
http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-german/law-patents/468836-avantage-de-bien-public.html
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=commonly+accepted+public+moral+standards
neutral |
Tony M
: Sadly, and without needing to refer to another language, 'bien public' does have a very specific meaning — just because it's an awkward concept to render in EN doesn't mean we should attempt to change its meaning.
8 hrs
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You may have been conflating 'le bien public' - the common good or weal - with 'les biens publics': public property.
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: agree with TM
16 hrs
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Then you are conniving at and acquiescing in a conflation that even Steve Robbie refers to, without mentioning my answer.
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neutral |
Daryo
: roughly yes, but a booklet called the 'Ladies' Directory' is hardly a good illustration of the principle.
22 hrs
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Well, you've learned something about English law & public policy that I did half a century ago.
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ethical standards for the public good
disagree |
Tony M
: I really don't believe that 'bien public' here means 'le bien du public'; I believe this is a translation error. See previous question to find a good definition of 'bien public' — in essence, 'common property'
4 mins
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agree |
Adrian MM.
: right idea I've elaborated on in my own answer.. //The disagrees are coming from forgetters of their (night?) school French..
1 hr
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disagree |
Andrew Bramhall
: Agree with Tony; a good example of the meaning would be the BBC, which belongs to tout le monde;
10 hrs
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agree |
Steve Robbie
: No idea where the disagreements are coming from.
16 hrs
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agree |
Emmanuella
18 hrs
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agree |
Daryo
1 day 4 mins
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ethical standards
These are ethical standards for charitable organisations, as mentioned later in the sentence. I think the 'bien public', meaning something like 'public welfare', is redundant and can be omitted.
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I cannot agree with your "leave it out" logic here, even if we don't have an equivalent expression in (British) English; you can't simply ignore "le bien public"
3 hrs
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neutral |
Tony M
: Nor does it mean 'public welfare', which is your excuse for leaving it out — it cannot be omitted here.
9 hrs
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neutral |
Emmanuella
: Il manque l'élément principal
17 hrs
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disagree |
Daryo
: you can't just ignore the "... de bien public" part + which is not about "welfare", BTW
22 hrs
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disagree |
Adrian MM.
: Your usual tactic and mantra chanted of 'redundant' and 'leave out, when in doubt' IMO are very unprofessional. Maybe it is time to take out that professional indemnity insurance policy....
3 days 17 hrs
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democratic ehtical standards
neutral |
Tony M
: I think that's taking int too far from the original sense: one might then say that some 'ethical standards' are UNdemocratic, which is not really what we're talking about here.
6 hrs
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neutral |
Emmanuella
: Démocratique n'est pas indiqué
14 hrs
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neutral |
Daryo
: "democracy / democratic" is so used (and abused) that more often that not it means everything and nothing. Too far away from the ST.
20 hrs
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disagree |
Adrian MM.
: Unless I am mistaken, you - hopelessly - have tried to reword my answer.
3 days 15 hrs
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I cannot see the faintest resemblance to your answer
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ethical standards in public property
However, I remain unconvinced of this as a viable way of rendering this notion in EN, which I think needs a lot of "massaging" and probably total reformulation.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2023-05-16 06:05:56 GMT)
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If you look at the reference provided in that previous KudoZ question, there is a lot less mystery — it explains exactly what it means!
The problem is, I don't think we have an equally succinct term for the same concept in EN — but as you say, the 'bien' here is definitely the same idea as 'res' in the Latin term.
I'm partly inclining to a theory that "bien public" is a Gallicism translating "res publica": not in the meaning of "Republic" so much, as "common wealth"/"commonwealth" ... maybe. This is pure conjecture and doesn't provide an obvious solution for this mysterious expression. |
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I think this is along the right lines but we somehow need something a little "wider" than public property
2 hrs
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Thanks, C! Yes, I agree, and as I said, I think it really needs paraphrasing.
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neutral |
Emmanuella
: No property - le bien public
18 hrs
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disagree |
Daryo
: Pretty sure that "bien" in "bien public" in this ST is not about any kind of property. It's about "the society as a whole doing well" / "what's good for the whole society" and "standards éthiques" contributing to that goal.
23 hrs
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agree |
Andrew Bramhall
: Tony is more or less right; it's about 'property' in the sense of ' intellectual property in the public domain', shared by all of us.
1 day 14 mins
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disagree |
Adrian MM.
: Excuse me, Tony, (I don't say sorry outside of England) but you IMO - and even per Daryo - may have dropped an unforgivable clanger.
3 days 18 hrs
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ethical standards in (throughout) the public domain
neutral |
Emmanuella
: Standard de bien public et non standard dans le domaine public
6 mins
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Perhaps you would like to propose a translation yourself
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neutral |
Daryo
: Wouldn't that mean that everyone knows about these standards (they're not secret, they've been published), whatever these standards apply to?
6 hrs
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Reference comments
https://shs.hal.science/halshs-00196418/document
La question du développement économique
Juliette ARNAL♣
Document de travail octobre 2005 1
Résumé :
L’éthique économique satisfait une demande de repérage et d’affirmation de règles communes
relatives à la sphère économique. La question de la formalisation de l’éthique se pose donc pour qu’elle puisse s’intégrer à l’entreprise. Les normes éthiques, outils spécifiques de formalisation, établissent un compromis entre la recherche d’une attitude responsable, un état de la technique et les contraintes économiques. L’intérêt porté aux normes éthiques se justifie par le fait qu’elles représentent des modes de coordination originaux pour l’économie. A travers une réflexion sur la nature des normes, il est intéressant de voir que la norme éthique peut être perçue comme un bien semi-public, ce qui mène à discuter de l’impact des normes éthiques en terme de développement.
Enfin, il semble indispensable s’interroger sur la légitimité des normes éthiques, sur le plan national comme international.
Mots clés : éthique économique, norme éthique, instance de régulation, bien public
Ethical standards as public goods: the issue of economic development
Abstract:
The economic ethics tries to define common rules relative to the economic system. Thus, the ethics formalization is at issue, so that ethics can be integrated at firm level. Ethical standard, as a specific tool of formalization, compromises between a responsible behaviour, a state of technique and economic constraints. Ethical standard is relevant because it represents a particular way of economic
coordination. Consequently, it is interesting to analyse standards’ nature: ethical standards can be analysed as public goods, or more precisely as dual public goods. Then, this leads to study the impact of ethical standards in terms of development. Finally, it seems necessary to focus on the broader issue of ethical standards’ legitimacy, at national and international level.
Key words: Economic ethics, ethical standards, authority of regulation, public good
JEL Classification : L16, L59, M14, R
neutral |
Tony M
: I think the EN example here is a very poor translation of the FR text, and certainly not to be relied upon!
1 hr
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I agree!
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neutral |
Daryo
: These are two different concepts: "les biens publics" is not "le bien public" in plural (not regarding the meaning) // this is not relevant for this ST.
1 day 18 hrs
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Le bien public
un bien public: the economist's notion of a 'public good' (cf. AllegroTrans's reference) for which 'a public good' is a perfectly standard English equivalent; and
le bien public: the somewhat hazier notion akin to le bien commun or the common weal, for which 'the public good' is also used in English.
It seems pretty clear to me that the second sense - the general good - is what our text is concerned with. Examples of this usage surely abound, but a couple of good examples can be plucked from French legislation:
Je promets de faire preuve de dévouement au bien public, de droiture, de dignité, de prudence et d'impartialité
This is apparently part of the oath to be sworn by gendarmes.
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000027996846?...
Le pharmacien est aussi responsable aux plans éthique et déontologique. Il a une attitude guidée par l'éthique, la déontologie et il adopte un comportement responsable, approprié, intègre, altruiste visant au bien-être personnel du patient et à la promotion du bien public.
This is from the Arrêté du 4 octobre 2019 portant organisation du troisième cycle long des études pharmaceutiques
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000039184807?...
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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-05-16 13:07:39 GMT)
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Should add that I'm aware that biens publics can also refer more concretely to public property/amenities, but again - that's not what the text appears to be driving at.
agree |
Emmanuella
1 hr
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agree |
Daryo
23 hrs
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neutral |
Adrian MM.
: Doesn't add much to my answer that you don't even acknowledge, even if I am not exactly English 'flavo(u)r of the month'.
3 days 1 hr
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Discussion
As opposed to what benefits limited private interests of individuals or businesses.
There is a connection with "res publica".
So "standards éthiques de bien public" would be code of ethics / ethical standards orientated toward the common good / public good / what's beneficial to the society as a whole.
Les feux d'artifice sont un bien public local, car toute personne à proximité du spectacle peut en profiter. La défense nationale est un bien public national, car elle bénéficie à tous les citoyens de l'État. Les biens publics mondiaux sont ceux dont peuvent pro- fiter les citoyens du monde entier.2 Dec 2021
https://www.publicgoodprojects.org/