| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Untranslatable words and phrases Thread poster: Anna Blackab (X)
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Clare Barnes 
Sweden
Local time: 01:50
Swedish to English
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| A lagom time for fika... | May 3, 2007 |
Fika... I just cannot find an English equivalent for this that really captures it (along with "lagom" it somehow captures the soul of Swedishness). It basically means coffee, or sometimes tea, with biscuits/cakes - and can be used in all sorts of ways as a noun or verb: "Shall we fika?" "It's time for fika..." and it has more social signifance than the good old tea and biscuits.
On the subject of do you feel what you cannot express... I once had a Finnish-speaking Swedish friend who... See more Fika... I just cannot find an English equivalent for this that really captures it (along with "lagom" it somehow captures the soul of Swedishness). It basically means coffee, or sometimes tea, with biscuits/cakes - and can be used in all sorts of ways as a noun or verb: "Shall we fika?" "It's time for fika..." and it has more social signifance than the good old tea and biscuits.
On the subject of do you feel what you cannot express... I once had a Finnish-speaking Swedish friend who would only say "I love you" to her husband in Swedish, as she felt the Finnish words didn't adequately express how she felt.
I also recently got into an interesting discussion with a group of students about colours - Swedish doesn't have as many colour names as English and I have often wondered whether it's simply because they don't "see" the differences in the same way - which turned out to be something near to the truth. It was very entertaing to listen to the group trying to work through the shades of blue and purple (indigo was completely lost on them). The student who also spoke fluent French had a much broader concept of colour, but couldn't manage to describe - even in Swedish - the concepts behind colours that she knew the names of in French and English. The rest of the group would stare uncomprehendingly and say "Oh... sort of dark blue", she would say "No... dark bluey purple but a much richer colour" - to which the response would be, "That's what we said... dark blue."
Isn't there an African tribe that has 36 words for the colour green and navigates using the colours in the landscape around them - or am I making that up? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Spanish vs. English; an untranslatable in each direction | May 3, 2007 |
"Quedarse con las ganas" refers to when you don't get something you want, and you are left (quedarse) with only the desire (more accurately, "feeling like [having something]") (ganas), i.e. not with the thing you wanted. It can apply to anything from a little treat you wanted to eat, to an unrequited love.
Speaking of which, "treat" can be tricky to translate into Spanish....
but not as difficult as "to look forward to." I don't know any expression ... See more "Quedarse con las ganas" refers to when you don't get something you want, and you are left (quedarse) with only the desire (more accurately, "feeling like [having something]") (ganas), i.e. not with the thing you wanted. It can apply to anything from a little treat you wanted to eat, to an unrequited love.
Speaking of which, "treat" can be tricky to translate into Spanish....
but not as difficult as "to look forward to." I don't know any expression that says this explicitly in Spanish; the usual solution is to say something (in Spanish) like "to be glad thinking about this future event," or "to await with anticipation."
So how would you say in Spanish, "They're really looking forward to their treat," considering that the "treat" in question could be anything from a tasty snack to an outing or a trip?
[Edited at 2007-05-04 01:58] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Veronika Hansova
Czech Republic
Local time: 01:50
Member (2006)
English to Czech
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| Clare - you're right! And some more examples | May 4, 2007 |
Clare Barnes wrote:
Isn't there an African tribe that has 36 words for the colour green and navigates using the colours in the landscape around them - or am I making that up?
Exactly, there are many other examples. I heard of the Inuits who have different names for types of snow and ice. We simply say "snow" or "ice" and if it is somewhat different (in terms of its composition), let's say powdery or heavy or wet or whatever ,we need to use the adjectives. Well, besides such obvious terms as slush or sleet. But that's all. The Inuits have 15 or even more morphologically different names that describe the quality of the snow in one noun.
Also Sahara nomads (the true ones, not for the tourists) are said to distinguish only 3 or 4 colours (mostly only describin if they are dark or light) but they have many morphologically different names for the qualities of the sand.
Our language is basically formed by our environment and how we perceive it.
And what's more, there are cultures that simply do not think the way we do. We think linearly putting the core of our utterance either at the beginning of the sentence or at the end depending on what must be stressed. And then we go on describing things as they come to our minds putting one after the other. But there are tribes and nations (I am not sure but I think it is the case of some of the Native American tribes and Siberian tribes) that put the core of their utterance in the middle of the sentence and using prefixes and suffixes to that word they describe its qualities.
F.e. "The tree is tall and has nice green leaves." A linear sentence. In their point of view it would be different. They see the sentence globally and not linearly. So the core of the utterance is the tree and its properties (tall, nice and green leaves) are added to the core using various suffixes and prefixes.
This is extremely difficult for us to think because we just do not think that way. To put it in a very simplified way: those people have to think of what they are saying in advance so that they were able to put the affixes in their correct place.
It has also much to do with time perception. But that's completely different question .
| | | | Anna Blackab (X)
Local time: 00:50
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Translating I love you | May 4, 2007 |
Clare Barnes wrote:
On the subject of do you feel what you cannot express... I once had a Finnish-speaking Swedish friend who would only say "I love you" to her husband in Swedish, as she felt the Finnish words didn't adequately express how she felt.
This rings a bell! I lived in Italy and fell in love with an Italian and found it hard to get my head around having two phrases for "I love you" - ti voglio bene and ti amo - I would only ever use the second one (with my boyfriend of course) and avoided the first as it seemed a bit 'mild' as a translation for I love you, even though I was assured it was normal to use in loving relationships!
What about translating 'I love you' in other languages - are there different shades of meaning?
Why weren't the Finnish words adequate? Maybe it's something to do with the words losing their emotional resonance as they are traslated out of our mother tongue.
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| Translating I love you | May 4, 2007 |
Anna Blackaby wrote:
This rings a bell! I lived in Italy and fell in love with an Italian and found it hard to get my head around having two phrases for "I love you" - ti voglio bene and ti amo - I would only ever use the second one (with my boyfriend of course) and avoided the first as it seemed a bit 'mild' as a translation for I love you, even though I was assured it was normal to use in loving relationships!
What about translating 'I love you' in other languages - are there different shades of meaning?
The German 'Ich habe dich lieb' and 'Ich liebe dich' spring to mind - probably used in a similar way to the Italian phrases you mentioned.
[Bearbeitet am 2007-05-04 07:32]
| | | | Stephen Rifkind
Israel
Local time: 02:50
Member (2004)
French to English
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| Yiddish - Hebrew | May 4, 2007 |
Yiddish - Hebrew is filled with words or expressions that take a sentence or two to explain. See "Joys of Yiddish". In Israel, "chutzpah" and "dafka" are the most prevalent. The first is defined as the child who kills his parents and then asks for mercy because he is an orphan. Somehow, "gaul" does not cut it. Dafka is a bit like "Murphy's law" as in: They said there was going to be only local rain today and dafka I have to plan a picnic in that one place!
The Middle East is u... See more Yiddish - Hebrew is filled with words or expressions that take a sentence or two to explain. See "Joys of Yiddish". In Israel, "chutzpah" and "dafka" are the most prevalent. The first is defined as the child who kills his parents and then asks for mercy because he is an orphan. Somehow, "gaul" does not cut it. Dafka is a bit like "Murphy's law" as in: They said there was going to be only local rain today and dafka I have to plan a picnic in that one place!
The Middle East is unfortunately filled with Chutzpah and dafka. ▲ Collapse
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The following quote is the best way to describe the Finnish word 'sisu':
It is 1939 and two Finish foot soldiers are pinned down in a battle during the war between Finland and Russia.
“We’re outnumbered,” one soldier says. “They’re must be over forty of them, and only two of us.”
“Dear God, it’ll take us all day to bury them!” exclaims the other.
(...)
Finnish people tell this story, along with a variety of others... See more The following quote is the best way to describe the Finnish word 'sisu':
It is 1939 and two Finish foot soldiers are pinned down in a battle during the war between Finland and Russia.
“We’re outnumbered,” one soldier says. “They’re must be over forty of them, and only two of us.”
“Dear God, it’ll take us all day to bury them!” exclaims the other.
(...)
Finnish people tell this story, along with a variety of others, to illustrate the national characteristic known as SISU. ‘Sisu,’ says Professor Kate Remlinger, linguist at Grand Valley State University, is an untranslatable word, meaning something like a dogged and proud refusal to lie down and be beaten. “The way people talk is a reflection of their worldview, their history, and their upbringing,” she says, observing that the idea of ‘sisu’ is so important to the Finns that, three generations after emigrating to the United States of America, it continues to infuse local Michigan dialect and culture.
(From In Other Words (2004) by Christopher J. Moore)
This excerpt is copied from a discussion in Wordwizard Clubhouse (follow this link to the thread: http://wordwizard.com/ch_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17837) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Swedish vs. English | May 4, 2007 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
..but I knew a most charming Swede once who jokingly said that he envied the British their rich language, and that the poor Swedes couldn't feel half the things the British feel because they lacked the words for such feelings. An intriguing idea, but probably not really true. Can one feel what one cannot express? What do you think, Erik?
[Edited at 2007-05-03 13:58]
Your Swedish friend is partly right there. The question is what we see as "rich" language. From tradition, the Sami need several terms involved with keeping reindeers, but less terms for how to raise camels. So from that perspective, most languages of the world are less "rich" than the Sami languages. It's all a question of your culture, background, identity and of course geography.
In some lingual areas English might be "richer" than Swedish, but on the other hand, we Swedes have quite a few untranslatable words often to be found in poetry about nature. Many of these terms are quite abstract and hard to define. By the way, I like the Finnish term about sisu. In Swedish we call this "jäklaranamma" (a kind of weak curse, telling that somebody has guts to get things done).
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John Cutler
Spain
Local time: 01:50
Spanish to English
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GoodWords wrote:
but not as difficult as "to look forward to." I don't know any expression that says this explicitly in Spanish; the usual solution is to say something (in Spanish) like "to be glad thinking about this future event," or "to await with anticipation."
In some cases I say "me hace ilusión" For example: "Me hace ilusión ir a la fiesta" = I'm looking forward to going to the party.
But you're absolutely right that it's a very difficult concept to translate exactly and imagine saying "me hace ilusión" in a formal letter
| | | | avsie (X)
Local time: 01:50
English to French
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| Not only Dutch | May 4, 2007 |
Margreet Logmans wrote:
Thinking about untranslatable phrases, the Dutch expression 'Roomser dan de paus' comes to mind. It literally means: 'More Roman-catholic than the Pope' and it is said of someone who is very, very strict about certain things (can be all kind of things).
"Être plus catholique que le pape" is a common expression in Québec, or at least I've heard it gazillions of times in the region where I come from, and it means exactly the same as what you are describing. Don't know about France or other French-speaking countries, though. But it ain't only Dutch
[Edited at 2007-05-04 12:27]
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Victor Dewsbery wrote: Beats all the "untranslatables" in the world in my book. Think of the question "Why can't you just be normal?" It is almost impossible for any two people to agree what this means - sometimes even within the same family. Just acting normally Victor
I can't but totally agree.
Rob
| | | | Veronika Hansova
Czech Republic
Local time: 01:50
Member (2006)
English to Czech
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| Arabic greetings | May 7, 2007 |
I am not translating Arabic but I can speak a bit and I know that Arabs play certain games when greeting themselves. Good morning is "sabah-al-chair" (I am not sure with the transcripion to Latin). And the answerer may choose to answer either the same or start the game and replying: sabah-an-nur (good morning of light or I whish you a light morning - very loosely said). And the first speaker may continue: sabah-al-ward (-good- morning of rose or I wish you a rosy morning). And the answerer goes... See more I am not translating Arabic but I can speak a bit and I know that Arabs play certain games when greeting themselves. Good morning is "sabah-al-chair" (I am not sure with the transcripion to Latin). And the answerer may choose to answer either the same or start the game and replying: sabah-an-nur (good morning of light or I whish you a light morning - very loosely said). And the first speaker may continue: sabah-al-ward (-good- morning of rose or I wish you a rosy morning). And the answerer goes on as if trying to beat each other: sabah-al-ful (I whish you a morning full of beans --- f.e. typical Egyptian breaksfast is beans)... and if their both in good moods they may continue endlessly. I've been witness to many such games.
And now try to translating without losing the wit and humour in the greetings as well as the poetics of the language!:D ▲ Collapse
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| Danke schön, bitte schön | May 7, 2007 |
Veronika Masopustová wrote:
I am not translating Arabic but I can speak a bit and I know that Arabs play certain games when greeting themselves. Good morning is "sabah-al-chair" (I am not sure with the transcripion to Latin). And the answerer may choose to answer either the same or start the game and replying: sabah-an-nur (good morning of light or I whish you a light morning - very loosely said). And the first speaker may continue: sabah-al-ward (-good- morning of rose or I wish you a rosy morning). And the answerer goes on as if trying to beat each other: sabah-al-ful (I whish you a morning full of beans --- f.e. typical Egyptian breaksfast is beans)... and if their both in good moods they may continue endlessly. I've been witness to many such games.
And now try to translating without losing the wit and humour in the greetings as well as the poetics of the language!:D
A bit like the potentially endless exchange in Germany "Danke schön", "Bitte schön", or in the USA "Thank you", "You're welcome". But I've never heard it go on as long as the Arabic exchanges you quote!
Jenny.
| | | | Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 20:50
Portuguese to English
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| Untranslatable | May 7, 2007 |
In Brazilian Portuguese, one untranslatable word (at least not with the exact shade of meaning) is "saudade", a bit like homesickness but can be used for people as well as things.
For example:
"Ai que saudade que eu tenho
Da aurora da minha vida
Da minha infância querida
Dos anos que não voltam mais".
This is an excerpt from a Brazilian poem where the poet expresses his yearning to return to his youth.
By the way, regarding "Tramitador" - yes, there IS... See more In Brazilian Portuguese, one untranslatable word (at least not with the exact shade of meaning) is "saudade", a bit like homesickness but can be used for people as well as things.
For example:
"Ai que saudade que eu tenho
Da aurora da minha vida
Da minha infância querida
Dos anos que não voltam mais".
This is an excerpt from a Brazilian poem where the poet expresses his yearning to return to his youth.
By the way, regarding "Tramitador" - yes, there IS a translation, at least in Portuguese. It is "despachante".
[Edited at 2007-05-07 13:50] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ben Gaia
New Zealand
Local time: 11:50
French to English
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| factotum in English | May 9, 2007 |
Anne Patteet wrote: in Spanish, is a person who takes care of all steps and procedures in order to get something. If you need a new passport or driver's licence, you use a tramitador (otherwise you may never get what you need ).
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