| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > |
泰戈尔《飞鸟集》一句诗句误译的分析和对翻译的启示 Thread poster: nigerose
|
|---|
wherestip 
United States
Local time: 06:32
Chinese to English
+ ...
pkchan wrote:
翻譯是什麼？翻譯就有如動物在進食後，進行消化，繼而反芻。在這過程中，有兩個不同的見解，一是『改用中文寫』，另一種是『用中文改寫』，在這兩端，當中所能操作的空間是非常廣闊的。如科學、專利翻譯首先要求是精確、嚴謹，是比較接近『改用中文寫』的這一端，而文學詩歌，是則重神韻、意境，容許有較大的『發揮』，是接近『用中文改寫』那一種。在商業社會，翻譯作為一種商品與金錢的交易，當然是要服從顧客的要求。若要反潮流，除了要『教育』顧客，還要花不少時間與精力，去說服他們，接納譯者的『發揮』及『改寫』，有時效果不大，反而會令人失望，唯一的想法就是轉行算了。話說回來，泰戈尔的《飞鸟集》，翻譯應屬可以盡情『發揮』的那一種，無需要太執著個別字眼上的意思，說好高慕遠的愛情也好，危若懸崖的愛情也好，反正已不能問泰戈尔，各自表述就是。
是这样. 诗歌嘛, 不一定处处都有严格的逻辑性. 每个人对某一作品的理解体会可能有所不同, 能够起到欣赏或鼓舞的作用就是了.
记得我们这里的各位诗人曾给 chance 帮忙出主意翻一首短诗, 真可谓八仙过海, 各显神通. 由此大家一起讨论过赋写和翻译诗歌, 其中话题也涉及到艺术和逻辑的关系 ...
http://www.proz.com/post/455996#455996
http://www.proz.com/post/456284#456284
[Edited at 2008-12-04 14:14 GMT]
| | | |
jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 世上本不存在直譯﹐只是說得人多了 | Dec 3, 2008 |
nigerose wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
起碼它的意思是準確的﹐符合翻譯的最基本要求。措辭和意境屬於另外的範疇﹐不能因為譯文藝術性差強人意就判斷它是誤譯。 你这个说法好像专利翻译界的"直译"原则。但过分直译，可能会曲解原文。
翻譯的目的是交流。直譯有時不可能把原文的準確意思表達出來。
| | | |
jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote: nigerose wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
起碼它的意思是準確的﹐符合翻譯的最基本要求。措辭和意境屬於另外的範疇﹐不能因為譯文藝術性差強人意就判斷它是誤譯。 你这个说法好像专利翻译界的"直译"原则。但过分直译，可能会曲解原文。 翻譯的目的是交流。直譯有時不可能把原文的準確意思表達出來。
如果一句話﹐用直譯和意譯兩種技巧翻譯出來意思不一樣﹐那么直譯一定是翻譯錯了。有人用直譯作為自己沒理解原文意思的托辭。對於他們來講﹐把字典上的翻譯搬過來填到句子里就叫直譯。
| | | |
wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:32
Chinese to English
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote:
如果一句話﹐用直譯和意譯兩種技巧翻譯出來意思不一樣﹐那么直譯一定是翻譯錯了。有人用直譯作為自己沒理解原文意思的托辭。對於他們來講﹐把字典上的翻譯搬過來填到句子里就叫直譯。
I agree. It's mostly a euphemism for mistranslation.
| | |
|
|
|
jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Not + Verb.....because | Dec 5, 2008 |
在這個結構中﹐ NOT 不可能修飾VERB﹐ 只能修飾BECAUSE。
所以﹐這句話的原文並非可以有多種解釋﹐也並不含有多種所謂語法現象。只是一種。
原文是很straightforward的﹐ 並不ambigous。
| | | |
nigerose
China
Local time: 19:32
Chinese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | 不，有时候可能修饰verb | Dec 5, 2008 |
jyuan_us wrote:
在這個結構中﹐ NOT 不可能修飾VERB﹐ 只能修飾BECAUSE。
所以﹐這句話的原文並非可以有多種解釋﹐也並不含有多種所謂語法現象。只是一種。
原文是很straightforward的﹐ 並不ambigous。
不，有时候可能修饰verb。例如
He did not come to the studio this morning because he was sick.
今早他没有来片场，因为他病了。
详见http://vweb.cycnet.com/cms/2004/englishcorner/yufaz/200612/t20061217_502649.htm
| | | |
jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 你的例句中﹐ NOT 仍然修飾BECAUSE | Dec 5, 2008 |
nigerose wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
在這個結構中﹐ NOT 不可能修飾VERB﹐ 只能修飾BECAUSE。
所以﹐這句話的原文並非可以有多種解釋﹐也並不含有多種所謂語法現象。只是一種。
原文是很straightforward的﹐ 並不ambigous。
不，有时候可能修饰verb。例如 He did not come to the studio this morning because he was sick. 今早他没有来片场，因为他病了。 详见http://vweb.cycnet.com/cms/2004/englishcorner/yufaz/200612/t20061217_502649.htm
他不是因為病了才來的片場。
| | | |
wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:32
Chinese to English
+ ...
He did not come to the studio this morning because he was sick.
nigerose wrote: 今早他没有来片场，因为他病了。
jyuan_us wrote: 他不是因為病了才來的片場。
The interpretation entirely depends on the context. Specifically, was or was not the person actually at the studio the morning in question?
I did not write that letter because of what you told me.
Take this other sample sentence in the above link for instance. How to interpret what the speaker meant all depends on whether the letter was or was not in fact written.
Anyway, I suggest we not get bogged down on sentences like these because the discussion or exercise may prove futile. Although it does go to show how important context is. Under different circumstances, the same sentence or phrase could have entirely different meanings. To further demonstrate, here's a simple example that Yueyin used in the past ...
[Edited at 2008-12-06 00:26 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
pkchan
United States
Local time: 07:32
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
《飛鳥集》是泰戈爾先用孟加拉語寫成，自己再用英文去譯寫，人們不用懷疑泰戈爾的英文寫作能力，就算是文法上與現時所公認的有距離，他擁有的是『詩人的執照』，如要討論其中的『誤譯』，推測原來真正的意思，還得先看看原文，這應是孟加拉語。單看『英譯中』的『錯誤』，便是廣東話說的『隔山打牛』吧。
我有一所房子，面朝大海，春暖花開: 再讀泰戈�... See more 《飛鳥集》是泰戈爾先用孟加拉語寫成，自己再用英文去譯寫，人們不用懷疑泰戈爾的英文寫作能力，就算是文法上與現時所公認的有距離，他擁有的是『詩人的執照』，如要討論其中的『誤譯』，推測原來真正的意思，還得先看看原文，這應是孟加拉語。單看『英譯中』的『錯誤』，便是廣東話說的『隔山打牛』吧。
我有一所房子，面朝大海，春暖花開: 再讀泰戈爾 - 簡 - [ 轉為繁體網頁 - Translate this page ]從孟加拉語到英語，再從英語到中文，每一次，都是艱難的磨合。 ... 我一時興起，隨手挑了幾首翻成中文，涉及範圍為親情和人性，可惜沒有愛情。貼在這裡，有興趣的就看 ...
maggiezmz.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!940FFDBA1AD2517C!3144.entry - 107k - Cached - Similar pages -
泰戈爾的詩集原文是英語的嗎他是用英語寫的嗎_百度知道 - 簡 - [ 轉為繁體網頁 - Translate this page ]... 出版的《飛鳥集》（Stray Birds） Fruit-gathering(這個不知道中文譯名是什麼)， ... Bengali to English by the author”，也就是說“由作者從孟加拉語譯成英文”。 ...
zhidao.baidu.com/question/19376655.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages - ▲ Collapse
| | | |
ShelleyX
Australia
Local time: 21:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
翻译中，当原文的理解出现几种可能时，如果上下文没有明显的线索，一般的原则是选择最常用的意思，而不会“独辟蹊径”去选择生僻的少见的理解。
| | | |
jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Steve, you are so right | Dec 6, 2008 |
wherestip wrote: He did not come to the studio this morning because he was sick.
nigerose wrote: 今早他没有来片场，因为他病了。
jyuan_us wrote: 他不是因為病了才來的片場。 The interpretation entirely depends on the context. Specifically, was or was not the person actually at the studio the morning in question? I did not write that letter because of what you told me. Take this other sample sentence in the above link for instance. How to interpret what the speaker meant all depends on whether the letter was or was not in fact written. Anyway, I suggest we not get bogged down on sentences like these because the discussion or exercise may prove futile. Although it does go to show how important context is. Under different circumstances, the same sentence or phrase could have entirely different meanings. To further demonstrate, here's a simple example that Yueyin used in the past ... [Edited at 2008-12-06 00:26 GMT]
I was kidding when I wrote the sentence you quoted.
| | | |
wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:32
Chinese to English
+ ...
| the meaning is indefinite without context | Dec 6, 2008 |
jyuan_us wrote:
Steve, you are so right
I was kidding when I wrote the sentence you quoted.
jyuan,
I figured you weren't very serious. Most people would assume from the lone sentence that the person did not show up for work that morning. But in certain situations, the interpretation you gave is entirely legitimate.
Say the person doesn't even work at the studio, and was just hanging out there for some reason other than taking sick leave from his regular day job.
| | |
|
|
|
ysun
United States
Local time: 06:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
ShelleyX wrote:
翻译中，当原文的理解出现几种可能时，如果上下文没有明显的线索，一般的原则是选择最常用的意思，而不会“独辟蹊径”去选择生僻的少见的理解。
| | | |
ysun
United States
Local time: 06:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
我认为，上面那个链接所提供的并不是什么好教材。那只是作者的个人学习心得而已。这种文章在中国青年网等媒体中广泛流传，不但对年轻人没什么帮助，反而误人子弟。前不久 Phil Hand 曾说：“毫无疑问，中国部分教材质量非常差，我曾经看过大学英语课本里的内容，与英文语法完全脱离了，根本不知道作家在想什么，好象是拍脑袋创意语法似的”。上述文章就是“拍脑袋创意语法”的一个典型实例。以其昏昏，如何使人昭昭？
我认为，在 “I did not write that letter because of what you told me” （没写信）这句话中，not 就是修饰动词 write 而不是修饰 because。如果想要否定 because，那就应该写成 “not because”。原则上，修饰词与被修饰词在句中的位置应尽量接近。而且，上面那句话并不等同于 “It was not because of what you told me that I wrote that letter”（已写信）。
另外，“It was not because of what you told me that I wrote that letter” 并不是什么特殊结构，而是一个很简单的以形式主语 It 引导的主语从句 (that I wrote that letter)。换言之：
It was not because of what you told me that I wrote that letter. 等于 The fact that I wrote that letter was not because of what you told me.
此外，“并不是因为你跟我说了，我才写那封信的”这种译法也不确切。”because of what you told me” 并不等于 “because you told me”。 “what you told me” 是指“所告诉的内容”，而 “you told me” 是指“告诉过我”这一事实。因此，这句话似应改为“并不是因为你对我所说的话，我才写那封信的”。这个 “you” 也许只是分析了写信的利弊，并不一定提出过要 “I” 写信的建议或命令。
| | | |
ysun
United States
Local time: 06:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Basics of grammar | Jun 16, 2012 |
“Do not seat your love upon a precipice because it is high”
In the above sentence, “Do” is an auxiliary verb used with “not” and another verb “seat” to form a negative expression. “Do not seat” is an integrated phrase used to form an imperative. Apparently, the word “not” is not used to modify “because”.
| | | |
| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > |
Login to reply/comment 
