| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Switching languages also switches personality? Thread poster: Lingua 5B
|
|---|
Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 19:33
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | What I wish we had in Europe | Jul 3, 2022 |
Allegedly, it’s highly impolite to have personal chats in public areas in Japan, eg. on subway. Silence is required. That is so other random people are not obliged to listen to your own problems. I am getting headaches from that in Europe, anywhere and everywhere, from my neighbors and further away.
I found more about non-verbals in ... See more Allegedly, it’s highly impolite to have personal chats in public areas in Japan, eg. on subway. Silence is required. That is so other random people are not obliged to listen to your own problems. I am getting headaches from that in Europe, anywhere and everywhere, from my neighbors and further away.
I found more about non-verbals in Japan: https://online.pointpark.edu/business/nonverbal-communication-japan/
It seems their way of communication is very much visual (eg. giving a gift that is nicely wrapped, nodding and listening) vs. not being bothered with gifts, not paying attention, and not listening/just talking a lot and loudly in Europe. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 21:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
Switching language switches audience, thus resulting in switched performance.
One's performance isn't even the same for family, friends, colleagues, etc. within same language.
| | | | Metin Demirel
Türkiye
Local time: 20:33
Member (2018)
Italian to Turkish
+ ...
Sadek_A wrote:
Switching language switches audience, thus resulting in switched performance.
One's performance isn't even the same for family, friends, colleagues, etc. within same language.
I remember watching two videos of me recorded at two different places one a few years after the other. The first one was in the army where I was bidding farewell to my fellows in an informal style, but mostly articulated with a brisk diction, and I was receiving an encouraging reaction from the audience. The second was a presentation in a white-collar environment. God, it was repulsive.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 13:33
Japanese to English
+ ...
| switch languages | Jul 4, 2022 |
Japanese physical behavior is in fact almost choreographed. Also, Japanese non-verbal behavior ("ishin denshin" 'using the mind to transmit what one is thinking or feeling") is based on a shared culture oftentimes within a common circle of people. One is careful not to mention what may be embarrassing or offensive. Oftentimes "a-re" ("that thing", "that matter") relates to an idea readily understandable to the interlocutor. "josei no are" ("that thing of women") means "menstruation". "Are desyo... See more Japanese physical behavior is in fact almost choreographed. Also, Japanese non-verbal behavior ("ishin denshin" 'using the mind to transmit what one is thinking or feeling") is based on a shared culture oftentimes within a common circle of people. One is careful not to mention what may be embarrassing or offensive. Oftentimes "a-re" ("that thing", "that matter") relates to an idea readily understandable to the interlocutor. "josei no are" ("that thing of women") means "menstruation". "Are desyoo?" ("That thing, you know what I mean") forces the other person to think or to make a choice. Not suggesting that Japanese are polite 100 % of the time. Making the other person lose face can be a pastime for some people. That's why there are so few curse words in Japanese. You can say:
Aitsu was shinde-mo ukabarenai!" "He is so evil he will not even rise from the dead to go to Heaven" or "Ano hito wa narenai" "He won't become anything" is an ontological curse indicating that person in question has no standing in the present word. Then there are subtle, vague, poetic meanings. In Yasujiro Ozu's film "Tokyo Monogatari" ("Tokyo Story"), after his wife dies, Ryu Chishu comes out facing the river and says "kiree na yoake datta" ("It was such a beautiful sunrise"). In other words, he has accepted his beautiful wife's death, mourns her and realizes that life must go on". In the film "Ugetsu Monogatari", one character, after suffering numerous difficulties, comes up with "kore wa yo-no-naka desyou ka" ("So this is what they mean when they say "the world"). In other words, the world is a vale of tears that must be accepted. The Japanese are not your average bears.
, , ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Juan Jacob
Mexico
Local time: 11:33
French to Spanish
+ ...
I switch between French/Spanish/Catalan (sometimes English) and I'm always that same fine person!
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
It is especially noticeable if the language experience "persona" is different for different languages
Popular examples:
* Reserved and respectful scholastic manner (language only used in schooling or university) vs. any kind of other personality for native language
* Subservient/humble in new language vs. confident streetwise swagger or haughty high social status in native language (immigrant laborers with low-end jobs)
* Shy and passive in new language/outside the... See more It is especially noticeable if the language experience "persona" is different for different languages
Popular examples:
* Reserved and respectful scholastic manner (language only used in schooling or university) vs. any kind of other personality for native language
* Subservient/humble in new language vs. confident streetwise swagger or haughty high social status in native language (immigrant laborers with low-end jobs)
* Shy and passive in new language/outside the home vs. loud and domineering in native language/at home (very common for older East Asian immigrant women)
The social status you learn a language in dictates the range of tones and behaviors you subconsciously consider "acceptable" when speaking that language.
It's also where the over-used in media phenomenon of "foreigner switches to native language to curse out a local" comes from. It doesn't actually happen as often as TV and movies seem to portray, but people are often more comfortable yelling or being aggressive in their native language. Although it can also conceivably go the other way, if a person is raised "well" in their native language, but then has an immersion into a "rougher" side of a new language (bad neighborhood, bad school, working-class job, military service, etc.).
[Edited at 2022-07-05 07:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:33
Serbian to English
+ ...
| Can't see any links | Jul 5, 2022 |
That study is extremely limited and seems to ignore a lot of other factors that should be taken into account- to be taken with a shovelful of salt.
I'm not aware that I would become a different persona simply because of speaking a different language.
I certainly do become "a different persona" depending on the specifics of the surroundings at any given time, but that has little to do with what language I have to use, it has to do with adapting to those people I ... See more That study is extremely limited and seems to ignore a lot of other factors that should be taken into account- to be taken with a shovelful of salt.
I'm not aware that I would become a different persona simply because of speaking a different language.
I certainly do become "a different persona" depending on the specifics of the surroundings at any given time, but that has little to do with what language I have to use, it has to do with adapting to those people I interact with. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marjolein Snippe
Netherlands
Local time: 19:33
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
I am very different when speaking Portuguese compared to when I speak Dutch. It is not just a matter of expressing myself differently - I feel different too. More extrovert, chattier, a different look on life and people. Although there is much less of a difference between my English-speaking me and my Dutch-speaking me.
| | |
|
|
|
| Persona is a mask | Jul 6, 2022 |
As a noumenal thing, personality is not supposed to change depending on the language you speak, but here is a curious thing: the Latin word for a person adopted by speakers of English literally means sounding through and designates a mask they used to wear in ancient theaters. Its Russian counterpart has a similar origin, but our religious texts do distinguish between persona and hypostasis, which is the noumenon hidden behind the mask. So, using different masks before diffe... See more As a noumenal thing, personality is not supposed to change depending on the language you speak, but here is a curious thing: the Latin word for a person adopted by speakers of English literally means sounding through and designates a mask they used to wear in ancient theaters. Its Russian counterpart has a similar origin, but our religious texts do distinguish between persona and hypostasis, which is the noumenon hidden behind the mask. So, using different masks before different audiences makes a ton of sense. However, I don't notice big changes in how I express myself when I choose to speak to an imaginary audience when taking a walk in the park, for example. My imaginary audiences get to hear near-equal numbers of speeches in Russian and in English, and I don't really know what causes me to choose either language for that purpose. I know that my claim that there exists a thing beyond what can be perceived is old-fashioned. I believe it's still okay to hold old-fashioned ideas (at least I haven't heard anything about them being banned). And then, it's fascinating to think about noumena. It's also a really hard think to do, like trying to wrap your head around Cantor's infinities ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 21:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
Metin Demirel wrote:
The second was a presentation in a white-collar environment. God, it was repulsive.
Why was that second video repulsive? You didn't say.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 19:33
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The second one. | Jul 7, 2022 |
The second one was probably formal, cold and robotic. Also, in corporate environment people tend to read from a script which makes them look like robots. Even bigger problem, their script commonly contains long sentences as if it was prepared for a reading audience, while the listening audience can’t stand long sentences (auditory attention span).
| | | | | German and English | Jul 7, 2022 |
I don't know about "switching personality" but there are often times when I don't quite feel myself when speaking German (my second language). I sometimes feel forced to adopt the German manner of communicating (more direct for example) in order to be taken seriously. Hard to explain but I find the subject very interesting!
| | |
|
|
|
Metin Demirel
Türkiye
Local time: 20:33
Member (2018)
Italian to Turkish
+ ...
Sadek_A wrote:
Why was that second video repulsive? You didn't say.
Each department was presenting a scene or a scenario that may be useful for the other departments. We were seemingly appreciating each other's hard work while in fact we didn't give a darn. It was a compulsory arrangement where we were supposed to learn to be better coordinated with others. I knew nobody really cared about what I was explaining just as I was not so much moved by the details of other's complicated routines. So we were refraining from showing it and pretended to be genuinely interested and impressed, which is repulsive when everyone knows that everyone in the room fakes it.
Sadek_A wrote:
The second one was probably formal, cold and robotic. Also, in corporate environment people tend to read from a script which makes them look like robots. Even bigger problem, their script commonly contains long sentences as if it was prepared for a reading audience, while the listening audience can’t stand long sentences (auditory attention span).
Quite the contrary, it was informal, warm and humanly. But the ways we did it was heavily affected by the HR's "celebrate everything and everyone at all times" attitude, which we were taking very very seriously. Much more seriously than necessary. Because when you react moderately to an over-enthused group, it might be taken as non-participating and not sharing their values. Now looking back on those days, I am happy to be a freelancer.
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 21:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
Metin Demirel wrote: Sadek_A wrote:
Why was that second video repulsive? You didn't say. Each department was presenting a scene or a scenario that may be useful for the other departments. We were seemingly appreciating each other's hard work while in fact we didn't give a darn. It was a compulsory arrangement where we were supposed to learn to be better coordinated with others. I knew nobody really cared about what I was explaining just as I was not so much moved by the details of other's complicated routines. So we were refraining from showing it and pretended to be genuinely interested and impressed, which is repulsive when everyone knows that everyone in the room fakes it. Sadek_A wrote:
The second one was probably formal, cold and robotic. Also, in corporate environment people tend to read from a script which makes them look like robots. Even bigger problem, their script commonly contains long sentences as if it was prepared for a reading audience, while the listening audience can’t stand long sentences (auditory attention span). Quite the contrary, it was informal, warm and humanly. But the ways we did it was heavily affected by the HR's " celebrate everything and everyone at all times" attitude, which we were taking very very seriously. Much more seriously than necessary. Because when you react moderately to an over-enthused group, it might be taken as non-participating and not sharing their values. Now looking back on those days, I am happy to be a freelancer.
***Small correction: the second part you quoted wasn't mine.***
I knew it couldn't have been the "formal, cold and robotic" description, because those are not requirements for white-collar/corporate environment nor for its presentations.
And, even if they were, that wouldn't qualify them as repulsive.
What troubled you, and was described by you as "repulsive", was the "two-faced" performance.
What amazes me, however, is the company's in-one's-face paradox between "celebrate everything and everyone at all times" & "reacting moderately taken as non-participating and not sharing their values".
They should've given your level of involvement the time needed to evolve, and supported you in/while doing so. Their loss, I guess.
| | | | Metin Demirel
Türkiye
Local time: 20:33
Member (2018)
Italian to Turkish
+ ...
Sadek_A wrote:
***Small correction: the second part you quoted wasn't mine.***
I knew it couldn't have been the "formal, cold and robotic" description, because those are not requirements for white-collar/corporate environment nor for its presentations.
And, even if they were, that wouldn't qualify them as repulsive.
What troubled you, and was described by you as "repulsive", was the "two-faced" performance.
What amazes me, however, is the company's in-one's-face paradox between "celebrate everything and everyone at all times" & "reacting moderately taken as non-participating and not sharing their values".
They should've given your level of involvement the time needed to evolve, and supported you in/while doing so. Their loss, I guess.
Sorry for messing up with the quotes. I had copied the entire part and replaced Lingua 5B's message, but forgot to correct the name.
Actually I had given those two examples to support your first statement about an audience affecting one's modality. Now I understand that personality is a not a monolithic entity but a spectrum which renders various parts of itself visible to various audiences. Maybe that's why we feel we (or other speakers) switch personality when switching the language.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Switching languages also switches personality? | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
