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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)
Thread poster: Zhoudan
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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笑一笑 Apr 12, 2009

"群丑图"

a collage of ugliness

an assemblage of ugly portraits

the homeliness collection

...


 
wherestip
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no ready-made English equivalent Apr 12, 2009

wherestip wrote:

"群丑图"



"群丑图"

BTW, something I saw in today's "Austin American-Statesman" reminded me of this Chinese term, frequently used in the days of the Cultural Revolution.



[Edited at 2009-04-12 14:49 GMT]


 
pkchan
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《群丑图》 Apr 12, 2009



《群丑图》的作者是翁如兰(女),1944年生于北京,1956年考入中央美术学院附中,1962年考入中央美术学院中国画系,从师于叶浅予先生,主攻人物画。1966年“文化大革命”开始,因作《群丑图》被认为是“丑化中央领导人”,而被捕入狱,后被“下放部队农场改造三年”。后入中央美术学院中国画系研究生班,成为文革后的第一届研究生,1980年毕业后留在中央美院任教,后侨居国外,从事绘画创作活动。


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
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combine threads?; medical 'condition' debate Apr 12, 2009

1 Chinese words that are very difficult to translate into English: Can we combine these two threads? Or would 'the topic starter' prefer to keep two separate threads?
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/131221-难翻的词_chinese_words_that_are_very_difficult_to_translate_into_english.html

2 Ha! ha
... See more
1 Chinese words that are very difficult to translate into English: Can we combine these two threads? Or would 'the topic starter' prefer to keep two separate threads?
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/131221-难翻的词_chinese_words_that_are_very_difficult_to_translate_into_english.html

2 Ha! ha! Remember the great 'disease vs condition' debate?:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_chinese/medical:_pharmaceuticals/2415811-disease_or_condition.html


[Edited at 2009-04-13 01:04 GMT]
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ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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关于翁如兰 Apr 13, 2009

我倒是第一次听说翁如兰的名字。据报道,《群丑图》是蒯大富指使翁如兰画的。谭震林在被定性为“二月逆流”的1967年2月的中央碰头会上斥责张春桥等人说,“蒯大富是什么东西?就是个反革命!搞了个百丑图。这些家伙,就是要把老干部统统打倒。这一次,是党的历史上斗争最残酷的一次,超过历史上任何一次!”

当时蒯大富是首都大专院校红卫兵革命造反联络站(简�
... See more
我倒是第一次听说翁如兰的名字。据报道,《群丑图》是蒯大富指使翁如兰画的。谭震林在被定性为“二月逆流”的1967年2月的中央碰头会上斥责张春桥等人说,“蒯大富是什么东西?就是个反革命!搞了个百丑图。这些家伙,就是要把老干部统统打倒。这一次,是党的历史上斗争最残酷的一次,超过历史上任何一次!”

当时蒯大富是首都大专院校红卫兵革命造反联络站(简称“首都红卫兵第三司令部”或“首都三司”)的司令。“首都三司”是首都各大专院校部分红卫兵组织组成的联络机构。估计蒯大富也是通过中央美院的红卫兵组织找到翁如兰的。有人曾企图解释翁如兰为什么要画此画。不管翁如兰当时是怎么想的,但他的父亲是高级知识分子,也在打倒之列。所以,她如果拒绝画此画恐怕也难逃一劫。1970年召开四届人大时,蒯大富已经过整肃被发配到宁夏青铜峡铝厂接受“再教育”。但上面又钦点他为四届人大代表。既然那时蒯大富没事,翁如兰也应该没事。可见,在此之前翁如兰即使入狱,时间也不会太长。至于“下放部队农场改造三年”,那不同于服有期徒刑。当时,全国共有几十万大学毕业生都被陆续送到部队农场接受再教育(当时每年的大学毕业生才十几万人)。

这里有一篇翁家四姐妹怀念她们父亲的文章和全家合影(看来翁如兰排行老三):
《怀念父亲》
http://www.mzb.com.cn/onews.asp?id=6783
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ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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应该说 Apr 13, 2009

翁如兰画的那些脸谱还是挺像的。她是位才女。看来她小学毕业就考入中央美术学院附中。 她能于1962年考入中央美术学院也是特别不简单。1957年和1962年是文革前考大学最难的两年。

《群丑图》的作者是翁如兰(女),1944年生于北京,1956年考入中央美术学院附中,1962年考入中央美术学院中国画系,从师于叶浅予先生,主攻人物画。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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跳梁小丑蒯大富 Apr 13, 2009

这篇介绍蒯大富的文章也提到,“1966年11月,蒯大富及其手下绘制了《百丑图》”。文中还提到,“1968年5月,蒯大富组织了清华大学井冈山兵团文攻武卫总指挥部,指挥清华大学两派武斗。30日凌晨攻击反对蒯大富的群众组织,导致致使18人死亡,1100多人受伤,30多人终生残疾,直接经济损失折合人民币逾1000万元。清华的武斗引起了北京大学、北京师范大学等校的大规模武斗�... See more
这篇介绍蒯大富的文章也提到,“1966年11月,蒯大富及其手下绘制了《百丑图》”。文中还提到,“1968年5月,蒯大富组织了清华大学井冈山兵团文攻武卫总指挥部,指挥清华大学两派武斗。30日凌晨攻击反对蒯大富的群众组织,导致致使18人死亡,1100多人受伤,30多人终生残疾,直接经济损失折合人民币逾1000万元。清华的武斗引起了北京大学、北京师范大学等校的大规模武斗。7月27日首都工人毛泽东思想宣传队(简称工宣队)进驻清华大学,却遭到了蒯大富手下的抵抗,开枪造成5名工宣队员死亡,数百人受伤”。

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/蒯大富

这篇文章写得比较客观。其实,蒯大富本人就是一个满怀政治野心的跳梁小丑。历史同他开了个玩笑,让他“投机”不着反而蚀把米。当然,他至今仍然不服。不过,他可以去中南海找找他当年的学长,看看能否给他平反。:D
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wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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"群丑图" Apr 13, 2009

I just posted this 'cause it struck me as a pretty funny term when it popped into my mind yesterday.

Here's another one I thought of ... "an ugliness convention"


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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It just occurred to me Apr 13, 2009

Does the character "丑" really signify physical unattractiveness, or does it really signify a "villain"?



[Edited at 2009-04-13 21:38 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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villain Apr 13, 2009

wherestip wrote:

Does the character "丑" really signify physical unattractiveness, or does it really signify a "villain"?

Steve,

I believe the character "丑" was intended to signify a "villain". As a matter of fact, most of the people in that picture are good looking. 蒯大富 doesn't look ugly, either.


 
wherestip
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可见字面翻易犯的错误 Apr 13, 2009

ysun wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Does the character "丑" really signify physical unattractiveness, or does it really signify a "villain"?

Steve,

I believe the character "丑" was intended to signify a "villain". As a matter of fact, most of the people in that picture are good looking. 蒯大富 doesn't look ugly, either.


Yueyin,

Yes, that's what I was thinking after mulling it over for a while.

Of course I was impressed more by the homeliness factor of the whole host of images I saw the other day while I was reading the newspaper; the term 群丑图 suddenly popped into my head.



[Edited at 2009-04-14 14:47 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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word-by-word translation Apr 14, 2009

wherestip wrote:

可见字面翻易犯的错误

是啊!如果用机器来翻译“群丑图”,结果将是 "Group ugly chart” 或 "Ugly chart group”。

有人曾把作为自己翻译样本的药品广告之标题 "The results couldn’t be more satisfying” 译为“效果不能再令人满意!” 如果用 Google 来翻译这句话,将得到“结果不能更令人满意”,似乎还强一些。我曾好意向他指出,这把意思整个儿给颠倒了。 别人也指出这种译法给人的印象是“以前令人满意,现在不能再令人满意”,应该译成“效果令人再满意不过!”等等。 可是,那位老弟一直坚决不改。不过话说回来,那译文即使不改,除了他自己和那产品卖家以外,别人也不会遭到什么损失。

[Edited at 2009-04-15 00:14 GMT]


 
ysun
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back translation Apr 15, 2009

“效果不能再令人满意!” >>> The results can no longer be satisfactory!

 
jyuan_us
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見到過類似的譯文 Apr 15, 2009

ysun wrote:

不过话说回来,那译文即使不改,除了他自己和那产品卖家以外,别人也不会遭到什么损失。

[Edited at 2009-04-15 00:14 GMT]


老孫的帖子總是絲絲入扣。上述見解一針見血。

我曾經看到一家翻譯公司的中文網頁 “ABOUT US”中的第一句話就是與上面的這個例句很類似的一句誤譯﹐中文的意思和原文要表達的正好相反。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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COULDN'T BE MORE Apr 15, 2009

"COULDN'T BE MORE” 算不上是什么“难翻的词”。我举出此例只是想说明,word-by-word translation 容易出错,而且对于别人正确的意见应虚心接受,而不要为了顾面子而坚持己见。 否则,无异于死要面子活受罪。

这里有篇文章专门谈 "COULDN'T BE MORE” 的问题,看来此问题并非只是让 non-native English speak
... See more
"COULDN'T BE MORE” 算不上是什么“难翻的词”。我举出此例只是想说明,word-by-word translation 容易出错,而且对于别人正确的意见应虚心接受,而不要为了顾面子而坚持己见。 否则,无异于死要面子活受罪。

这里有篇文章专门谈 "COULDN'T BE MORE” 的问题,看来此问题并非只是让 non-native English speakers 感到困惑:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004975.html

"The construction "X couldn't be more Y" has become a commonplace way to say "X is very Y", …

But when people ask whether X couldn't be more Y, they're not asking whether X is very Y -- they're generally expressing a wish that X should change in the direction of Y."

Couldn't they be more reasonable?


[Edited at 2009-04-15 17:14 GMT]
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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)






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